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From: Eric D. Pierce <>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:13:20 -0800
Message-ID: <>

trying again...

| Original Message:
| -----------------
| From: Johnson, M=2E
| Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:23:21 -0800
| To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity=2Ecom
| Subject: RE: McCain on Larry Ellison and Corporate
Responsibility / Re: =

| Not defending Ellison for anything,=20


| but it appears
| McCain is just another politician who is only interested
| in his future and he constantly takes on these "reform
| ideas" and just makes the matter worse

That sounds really cynical to me. Are you just speculating, or do you have
any info to back that up?

Note that Oracle/Ellison attempted to buy off politicians here in
Sacramento in order to stop the JLAC (legislative) audit of Oracle's ELA
with the State of California

Note that Senator Sarbanes was on the same TV program ("Meet the Press") as
McCain, and generally agreed with McCain that there is a horrible lack of
corporate responsibility, and that reforming the institutions designed to
protect the public's interests has been made extremely difficult by the
influence of corrupt lobbyists and lack of effective campaign reform

Tim Russert (a rare TV journalist with some integrity) and the Senators
spent most of their time discussing the issue of putting executive stock
options on the "expense" sheets so as to more correctly reflect
profitability (or lack thereof)

Do you think it better serves the investment community for sleazy corrupt
executives to be able to hide their shenanighans from analysts and

| Everyone should accept the fact that we are in a bear
| market and as such all the boats go down

Argh, that is the problem, when you have these outrageous examples of
greedy, corrupt corporate executives cashing out (***AFTER COOKING THE
BOOKS***), leaving others to sink

| Everyone should have been smart enough to sell stocks and
| put their money into cash or better yet short stocks
| when it was very clear that in the Fall of 2000 after the
| initial March 2000 sell off that we were going into
| a prolonged Bear market

"Should have been" !?!?!

That isn't really the issue. As mentioned above, the issue was how excess
greed played out when "the books were cooked" to create a false impression
of profitability

| Ellison probably took the money and ran when this
| became apparent to him and many others. I know I did.

So (regardless of whether Ellison is a good example, or not), do you think
that there should be *any* accountability for the social damage caused by
greed driven unethical accounting practices?

(fwiw, I'm sympathetic to libertarian/"Chicago school" free market
ideology, but I fear that like its opposite, leftist utopianism, when taken
to extremes, it doesn't work all that well in the "real world".)


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:53 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L OT - unix

My understanding is that this was the very first time Ellison had ever sol=
Oracle stock, in over 25 years of the company's existence, in 2000, which =
the occasion that McCain (and you) are referring to=2E As you might be aw=
there was a far greater "opportunity" for Ellison to "cash out" and leave
Oracle dangling in 1990, when the price dropped from around $20 to $6 almo=
overnight after some financial-earning restatements=2E On that occasion, =
would certainly have had prior knowledge of what was going to happen, to p=
it mildly=2E In 2000, any foreknowledge of a long-term downturn (26 month=
and counting?) would have been worth far more than $700m, especially to
someone holding several billions in equities=2E=2E=2E

> Speaking of herds, or at least what is left behind on
> the ground after they pass:
> on "Meet the Press" (TV program), Senator John McCain
> said that Larry Ellison cashed out $700,000,000 of his
> Oracle stocks just before they lost most of their
> value (sarcasm: I'm sure he is planning on plowing it
> back into the company, especially improving quality in
> OWS and Metalink)=2E
> regards,
> ep
> On 14 Jul 2002 at 16:28, Alex wrote:
> Date sent:      Sun, 14 Jul 2002 16:28:18 -0800
> the future
> To:             Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity=2Ecom>
> > =2E=2E=2E As far as DB vendors targeting linux they move in herds and =
> > just finished their linux port from when "linux" was a buzzword=2E
> =2E=2E


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