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RE: (Fwd/2)

From: Orr, Steve <>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:45:13 -0800
Message-ID: <>

A lot of the current problem goes back to government intervention. Some politicians/bureaucrats complained that CEO salaries were too high or unfair and (as if they were fit to judge) they decided to "control" the high CEO salary "problem" via taxation. So guess what happened? Corporate boards felt they needed to better compensate their CEO's and compensation changed to be more oriented to stocks and options. Suddenly CEO became intensely interested in Wall Street perception and stock values, much of which is driven by accounting reports. Business practices changed because of government intervention to solve a "problem" and the result was an even worse problem. The original government intervention was justified as an attempt to make things more fair for the "little people" but the result hurt everyone, especially little people like the small investor.

LAISSEZ FAIRE!! Less government = increased prosperity. Adam Smith rules.

The above explanation is a bit simplistic and doesn't explain everything but the essence has merit. The market may have periods of irrational exuberance but eventually it self corrects.

The founding fathers' focus was to have the government be accountable to the public but now the fixation is with having publicly owned organizations be accountable to the government. In reality public companies are accountable to the public and the correction has already taken place in the stock market. The mindset of America has been turned up-side-down and many of its values no longer reflect the values of the founding fathers or its heritage in the constitution.

The founding fathers were considered "liberals" in their day.

"Liberally" and rhetorically yours, :-) Steve Orr


What does this have to do with Oracle? Well it's kind of like tuning with ratios... Making tuning changes with incomplete understanding may have the opposite effect of what was intended. :-)

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 12:19 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

A new boat, Ferrari, Mig fighter jet, mansion, maybe some Japanese art... the man has some serious expenses. Seriously, I know that Oracle had a problem with shady accounting practices many years ago (late 80's, if I recall correctly). Their stock took a huge hit, and they cleaned up their act. As a result, I think that they have been very conservative in there accounting practices ever since, and have not heard any accusations of untoward accounting practices since them.

I admit that I know almost nothing about accounting. Still, I think it the height of hypocrisy for politicians to accuse anyone of shady accounting practices, when, as I understand, the federal govt itself doesn't abide by the Generally Accepted Accounting Principles to which corporations are expected to adhere. All the Worldcoms and Enrons added together don't equal the tax dollars flushed down the toilet due to govt waste, corruption, fraud and incompetence. As an example:

Having ceo's sign off on their company's books seems sensible enough. I suspect that when the hot air coming from DC blows over, the investigations will prove that existing laws have been broken, and there will be criminal convictions. Most people don't want to wait for investigations to run their course, and politicians pander to this lack of attention span with by pontificating on TV, then passing more laws, which at best are probably redundant, and at worst have unintended side-effects.

The politicians, especially Democrats, have also successfully exploited class-envy with their screw-the-rich-we'll protect-the-little-guy act. It usually works well for them, so they take advantage of it at every opportunity.


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 12:30 PM
To:; Kirsh, Gary

(test, posting from


Certainly. I'm waiting for people to present more factual information.
(Maybe Larry needed some petty cash for a new boat or something?)

Instead, what you see is people defending the social privileges of the wealthy technocorporate elites, and the ethos of sleaze, extreme greed and selfishness that they are mired in.

Do you know if Oracle's accounting practices are currently documented in a way that is transparent to investors?

I guess a lot of alleged "facts" will come out after the august deadline that the SEC has imposed for corporate executives to sign off on the validity of their accounting.


Original Message:

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:53:34 -0800


Have you considered the POSSIBILITY that Larry sold the stock without the benefit of insider trading, and simply got lucky with his timing? After all, the main reason Oracle stock has lost so much value is not due to problems specific to the company, but due to problems in the market and economy as a whole. So where would the insider info come into play? And if he really did have insider info, and was acting unethically, why not sell more shares? The amount he sold was probably less than 5% of his holdings.

I don't mean to defend ceo misconduct, corporate fraud, etc, I just think you need look this particular accusation a little more objectively, especially when you consider its source. I have great respect for McCain's war record and heroism, but now he is a politician, a Senator no less. IMHO, one can't take anything any politician says at face value. Given a choice between honesty and self-promotion, I'm afraid politicians too often choose the latter. And without getting into specifics about McCain, he seems to be second in the Senate only to my own Sen. Schumer in his love of getting on TV (Q: What's the most dangerous place in NY? A: Between Chuck Schumer and a TV camera). Larry makes a convenient and easy target, someone a politician knows he can attack, get a good soundbite, and have very little chance of being challenged.


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Author: Orr, Steve

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Received on Tue Jul 16 2002 - 14:45:13 CDT

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