Re: SYBASE acquired PowerSoft AND SDP, was Re: PowerBuilder acquires S-designer?

Most of your response is so funny I couldn't stop laughing! Here are a few answers for you.

In article <3uiafn$7uh_at_ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> you write:
>Just your "humble opinion!?" Where do you get this stuff from Dennis?

Well, I've been in the industry for 10 years, I've got good contacts, I talk to the industry analysts and press, ...

>Let me address a few points:
>
> 1) Powersoft's commitment to support its current installed base
> and to remain database neutral.
> 2) Some truths that Dennis does not tell you about Oracle's
> products.
>
>SDP is a subsidiary of Powersoft's. Until this week the Sybase sales
>force did not even have the rights to sell S-Designer, only the
>Powersoft and SDP sales forces were able to sell S-Designer. Now, if
>SDP was a Sybase subsidiary then why could only the Powersoft sales
>force and Powersoft's subsidiaries sell S-Designer?

Gee, is your point that not being able to sell it means independence, and being able to sell it means dependence? Can Slimebase reps sell it now or not (I think you answered that question already!)? Incidentally, allowing some reps to sell a product and others not to sell a product is called "sales force segmentation" -- it allows you to create specialist reps to focus on a product, without burdening your sales force with too much required training. For example, at Oracle, certain reps sell specialized products that the other reps can't sell. The same is true at Slimebase.

>I want to iterate that Powersoft remains independent of Sybase.
>Believe me, as a Sybase product manager, I'd rather they didn't.
>However, for reasons (that are much more important than my selfish
>reasons) Powersoft nees to be independent! Powersoft must continue
>to support its installed base of Oracle, Informix and other database
>customers. Additionally by Powersoft remaining database independent
>it allows Sybase to penetrate accounts that it would otherwise not
>have access to. This means that we will be able to take away Oracle
>customers in the comming months and years.

So the goal is to lock people into PowerNot, not to provide value.

>I would also like to point people to read the August issue of DBMS
>magazine. It features Powersoft's chairman Mitchell Kertzman. Yes,
>Powersoft still has a chairman and a president since it does remain
>independent of Sybase.

I see. And is he on Slimebase's management committee? And what is Tom Herring's title these days? Oracle's sales force has a chairman and president (Ray Lane) -- does that mean the sales force is independent of the rest of the company?

>Dennis, if I were you I wouldn't be too proud of Developer/2000 and
>Designer/2000 as they require, get this: a machine with 32MB of RAM
>and a 486 (preferably a Pentium according to Oracle's documentation).
>By contrast PowerBuilder and S-Designer fit nicely in 8MB of RAM on
>a 386.

Uh, Designer/2000 has a recommended system configuration similar to what you've described, but Developer/2000 does not. And as soon as S-Designor (that's the correct way to spell the product name, I believe) can do BPR diagrams, E-R diagrams, Data Flow diagrams, etc., server generation, code generation, application partitioning, model management and reverse engineering of code and servers with a secure, scalable repository all in 8 MB of RAM, let me know. And from interviewing many PowerBuilder developers, 8 MB RAM for development just doesn't cut it -- 16 MB on a Pentium is what many claim is a minimum, and a lot of people have been complaining on comp.soft-sys.powerbuilder that 8 MB at runtime is too little for their apps. I guess what you're saying is that Sybase cares more about hyped-up claims (i.e. "you only need 8 MB RAM!") than solid recommendations that customers can live with (i.e. "you really need a major system upgrade").

>Further, PowerBuilder has proven itself as a database independent
>GUI development tool. In addition, S-Designer has also proven itself
>as a database independent CASE tool that generates schemas for
>Sybase SQL Server, Oracle7, Informix, Gupta and others (30 databases
>in total). By contrast Oracle's Designer/2000 LOCKS CUSTOMERS in to
>Oracle FOREVER.

Interesting. I think you mean database irrelevant. I agree, Designer/2000 and Developer/2000 support Oracle better than any other database, and they support Oracle far better than any other tool. But we have added support for MS SQL Server, Access, Rdb, DB2, Tuxedo, and even System 10 in the current release, in addition to ODBC and others. Our growth rate on Windows in the past year was over 200%, to about $75,000,000, as compared to Sybase's growth rate of less than 100%, to about $110,000,000 (both figures for LICENSE SALES, not total revenues). You're still bigger, but we're taking share away from you, and we WILL pass Sybase/PowerSoft/SDP or whatever you want to call it within a year -- by delivering a better product, with more features, more usability, more productivity, more scalability, more portability (when did you announce that Mac and Motif and OS/2 port? Oh, three years ago!), more stability, more multi-lingual capability, and more upward compatibility. By delivering a better value we're making customers happier.

>Oracle does not have the best interest of customers in mind. Oracle
>still doesn't get it. They fail to realize that most large companies
>have databases from multiple database vendors. In a survey that
>Sybase performed a few years ago it found that on average Fortune 500
>companies have at databases from at least 5 vendors. PowerBuilder
>and S-Designer bring you much closer to having your application access
>your heterogenous database environments from within the application.
>S-Designer lets you, the customers, generate schemas for over 30
>databases. As mentioned Designer/2000 works with Oracle7 only!
>How many Fortune 500 companies use Oracle only? Zero, none, nada!
>How many referencable sites does Developer/2000 have running in a
>heterogenous environment (against Sybase SQL Server, Microsoft SQL
>Server, Informix, Ingres, DB2...)? Zero, none, nada!

Interesting claims. You don't know the realities, apparently. We have plenty of such reference sites -- all a CUSTOMER has to do is ask her sales rep. We are making our products more open, but let's look at the facts. Today, you can FORCE a PowerNot application to talk to multiple databases, but PowerBuilder doesn't do anything for you except allow the conversation. Developer/2000 can actually adjust for differences in the semantics of the underlying database -- without any additional code. Things like switching from immediate (or pessimistic) locking against a database with row level locking to deferred (or optimistic) locking aganist a database with block level locking. Things like simulating "hold cursor open across transaction boundaries" for databases that don't support that. Can PowerBuilder do any of that? NOT.

>Dennis (the product manage for Oracle's tools) paints an inaccurate
>picture, yes some people may call it a picture full of lies. Dennis,
>I would have thought that since leaving Ingres you would have
>maintained the same level of integrity. I see, however, that the lack
>of integrity at Oracle is contagious and it has also infected you.
>That is unfortunate, as mutual friends had led me to believe you were
>of the highest integrity.
>
>Francisco

Francisco, I don't know you. You may have met me, apparently, five years ago when I worked at Ingres. Perhaps Oracle was "the evil empire" five years ago (I really don't think so), but a lot can change in five years. For example, the people who work at a company make the company. Today at Oracle, people like Olivia Dillan, Fred Carter, Tom Bishop, Stewart Wilson, Marion Wong, Sylvia Perez, Wilson Drane, Annie Chen, and dozens of others who worked with me in development at Ingres now work in development at Oracle. Did we all magically turn into a**holes when we started working at Oracle?

Oracle did not get to be a 3 billion dollar company by not understanding our customers, and working to give them good value and great products. In the past five years, Larry Ellison and Ray Lane have reinvented the company, dedicating it to delivering great customer service, not the hype and lies that Sybase and ALL it's divisions generate.

>In <dbmooreDBx2s4.79M_at_netcom.com> dbmoore_at_netcom.com (Dennis Moore)
>writes:
>>
>>PowerSoft did not acquire SDP, SA (the makers of S-Designor), Sybase
 did.
>>Sybase also acquired PowerSoft previously. They are not independent
 companies,
>>they are divisions of Sybase. Sybase had to acquire a CASE tool
 because
>>companies are finding that it is impossible to build sophisticated
 client/server
>>applications using first generation tools stuck in one life cycle
 stage, like
>>PowerBuilder. In addition, since Oracle started taking away Sybase's
 market
>>in both databases (with Oracle7) and tools (with Developer/2000), and
 recently
>>also start shipping great CASE tools (with Designer/2000), Sybase had
 to buy
>>a company to keep up. Of course, like with their first CASE tool
 acquisition
>>(Deft, a few years ago, which is not even shipped anymore), they
 overpaid for
>>a functionally weak product. The acquisition cost was about US$20MM,
 which
>>caused Sybase to have a second straight quarter of losses. If you use
>>LogicWorks' ERWin with PowerBuilder, expect a visit from the
 Sybase/PowerSoft
>>rep trying to get you to swap to S-Designor. S-Designor will be
 integrated
>>with PowerBuilder within a few years (probably around the same time
 the Mac
>>and Unix ports ship ;-), so I bet the other CASE vendors find out soon
 just
>>how "open" Sybase intends to be with PowerBuilder. Just MHO ...
>>
>>In article <itkennet.7.002477BF_at_polyu.edu.hk> itkennet_at_polyu.edu.hk
 (Kenneth Yuen) writes:
>>>Recently I have looked at the PB WWW page and found that Powersoft
 established
>>>a Designer-division. Also, Powersoft holds an official course for
 S-designer
>>>for PB. Does anyone know further information?
>>>
>>>Thanks.
>>>
>>>Kenneth
>>> ---------------+------------------------------+---------------------
 

>>>| Kenneth Yuen | itkennet_at_polyu.edu.hk | Phone:852-2766-5370
 

>>>| The H.K. PolyU| HungHom, Kln., Hong Kong. | Fax:852-2356-7918
 

>>>| | http://www.polyu.edu.hk |
 

>>> ---------------+------------------------------+---------------------
 

>>
>>
>>--
>>-- Dennis Moore, Oracle Corp.
>>dbmoore_at_oracle.com <- Office (preferred for e-mail)
>>dbmoore_at_netcom.com <- Home (preferred for living ;-)
>

-- 
-- Dennis Moore, Oracle Corp.
dbmoore_at_oracle.com	<- Office (preferred for e-mail)
dbmoore_at_netcom.com	<- Home (preferred for living ;-)