Re: SYBASE acquired PowerSoft AND SDP, was Re: PowerBuilder acquires S-designer?

I have a small addition. The combination of PowerBuilder and S-Designer also includes a free version of Watcom SQL. By contrast Oracle requires you to purchase Personal Oracle for MS-Windows. So the total RAM requirements of a CASE tool, development tool and a local database for Sybase and Oracle are:

PowerBuilder/S-Designer/WatcomSQL: 8MB of RAM

Developer/2000:                     16MB
Designer/2000:                      16MB
Personal Oracle:                     8MB
                                    ----
GRAND TOTAL:                        40MB
                                    ====

Let's see:

    40MB - 8MB = 32MB _at_ $45/MB = $1,440.00

    plus the cost difference between a 386/33 and a 486/33. Realize     that most companies still have a lot of 386 machines.

Finally: Oracle, please compete on the merits of your products and

         not by lying about your competitors.

In <3uiafn$7uh_at_ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> fcasas_at_ix.netcom.com (Francisco Casas) writes:
>
>Just your "humble opinion!?" Where do you get this stuff from Dennis?
>
>Let me address a few points:
>
> 1) Powersoft's commitment to support its current installed base
> and to remain database neutral.
> 2) Some truths that Dennis does not tell you about Oracle's
> products.
>
>SDP is a subsidiary of Powersoft's. Until this week the Sybase sales
>force did not even have the rights to sell S-Designer, only the
>Powersoft and SDP sales forces were able to sell S-Designer. Now, if
>SDP was a Sybase subsidiary then why could only the Powersoft sales
>force and Powersoft's subsidiaries sell S-Designer?
>
>I want to iterate that Powersoft remains independent of Sybase.
>Believe me, as a Sybase product manager, I'd rather they didn't.
>However, for reasons (that are much more important than my selfish
>reasons) Powersoft nees to be independent! Powersoft must continue
>to support its installed base of Oracle, Informix and other database
>customers. Additionally by Powersoft remaining database independent
>it allows Sybase to penetrate accounts that it would otherwise not
>have access to. This means that we will be able to take away Oracle
>customers in the comming months and years.
>
>I would also like to point people to read the August issue of DBMS
>magazine. It features Powersoft's chairman Mitchell Kertzman. Yes,
>Powersoft still has a chairman and a president since it does remain
>independent of Sybase.
>
>Dennis, if I were you I wouldn't be too proud of Developer/2000 and
>Designer/2000 as they require, get this: a machine with 32MB of RAM
>and a 486 (preferably a Pentium according to Oracle's documentation).
>By contrast PowerBuilder and S-Designer fit nicely in 8MB of RAM on
>a 386.
>
>Further, PowerBuilder has proven itself as a database independent
>GUI development tool. In addition, S-Designer has also proven itself
>as a database independent CASE tool that generates schemas for
>Sybase SQL Server, Oracle7, Informix, Gupta and others (30 databases
>in total). By contrast Oracle's Designer/2000 LOCKS CUSTOMERS in to
>Oracle FOREVER.
>
>Oracle does not have the best interest of customers in mind. Oracle
>still doesn't get it. They fail to realize that most large companies
>have databases from multiple database vendors. In a survey that
>Sybase performed a few years ago it found that on average Fortune 500
>companies have at databases from at least 5 vendors. PowerBuilder
>and S-Designer bring you much closer to having your application access
>your heterogenous database environments from within the application.
>S-Designer lets you, the customers, generate schemas for over 30
>databases. As mentioned Designer/2000 works with Oracle7 only!
>How many Fortune 500 companies use Oracle only? Zero, none, nada!
>How many referencable sites does Developer/2000 have running in a
>heterogenous environment (against Sybase SQL Server, Microsoft SQL
>Server, Informix, Ingres, DB2...)? Zero, none, nada!
>
>Dennis (the product manage for Oracle's tools) paints an inaccurate
>picture, yes some people may call it a picture full of lies. Dennis,
>I would have thought that since leaving Ingres you would have
>maintained the same level of integrity. I see, however, that the lack
>of integrity at Oracle is contagious and it has also infected you.
>That is unfortunate, as mutual friends had led me to believe you were
>of the highest integrity.
>
>Francisco
>
>In <dbmooreDBx2s4.79M_at_netcom.com> dbmoore_at_netcom.com (Dennis Moore)
>writes:
>>
>>PowerSoft did not acquire SDP, SA (the makers of S-Designor), Sybase
 did.
>>Sybase also acquired PowerSoft previously. They are not independent
 companies,
>>they are divisions of Sybase. Sybase had to acquire a CASE tool
 because
>>companies are finding that it is impossible to build sophisticated
 client/server
>>applications using first generation tools stuck in one life cycle
 stage, like
>>PowerBuilder. In addition, since Oracle started taking away Sybase's
 market
>>in both databases (with Oracle7) and tools (with Developer/2000), and
 recently
>>also start shipping great CASE tools (with Designer/2000), Sybase had
 to buy
>>a company to keep up. Of course, like with their first CASE tool
 acquisition
>>(Deft, a few years ago, which is not even shipped anymore), they
 overpaid for
>>a functionally weak product. The acquisition cost was about US$20MM,
 which
>>caused Sybase to have a second straight quarter of losses. If you
 use
>>LogicWorks' ERWin with PowerBuilder, expect a visit from the
 Sybase/PowerSoft
>>rep trying to get you to swap to S-Designor. S-Designor will be
 integrated
>>with PowerBuilder within a few years (probably around the same time
 the Mac
>>and Unix ports ship ;-), so I bet the other CASE vendors find out
 soon
 just
>>how "open" Sybase intends to be with PowerBuilder. Just MHO ...
>>
>>In article <itkennet.7.002477BF_at_polyu.edu.hk> itkennet_at_polyu.edu.hk
 (Kenneth Yuen) writes:
>>>Recently I have looked at the PB WWW page and found that Powersoft
 established
>>>a Designer-division. Also, Powersoft holds an official course for
 S-designer
>>>for PB. Does anyone know further information?
>>>
>>>Thanks.
>>>
>>>Kenneth
>>>

 ---------------+------------------------------+---------------------
 


>>>| Kenneth Yuen  | itkennet_at_polyu.edu.hk        | Phone:852-2766-5370

 

>>>| The H.K. PolyU| HungHom, Kln., Hong Kong. | Fax:852-2356-7918
 

>>>| | http://www.polyu.edu.hk |
 

>>>

 ---------------+------------------------------+---------------------
 


>>

>>

>>-- 

>>-- Dennis Moore, Oracle Corp.


>>dbmoore_at_oracle.com	<- Office (preferred for e-mail)

>>dbmoore_at_netcom.com	<- Home (preferred for living ;-)