Re: citations of nature

"Anith Sen" <anith_at_bizdatasolutions.com> wrote in message news:uPMKb.12912$6B.6576_at_newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "Dawn M. Wolthuis" <dwolt_at_tincat-group.com> wrote in message
> news:btddo3$t87$1_at_news.netins.net...
> > "Anith Sen" <anith_at_bizdatasolutions.com> wrote in message
> > news:zdqKb.11289$6B.2907_at_newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> > > "mountain man" <hobbit_at_southern_seaweed.com.op> wrote in message
> > > news:rgfKb.78898$aT.66274_at_news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > > > "Dawn M. Wolthuis" <dwolt_at_tincat-group.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Anyone who wants to can define a database as a set, but unless I
see
> > > some
> > > > > glaring problem with defining it to be what regular people
actually
> > > think
> > > > it
> > > > > is (even if adding some precision to the language), I'll continue
to
> > do
> > > > so.
> > > > > I suppose someone could define a car engine in an abstract way
> too...?
> > > > > Cheers! --dawn
> > > >
> > > > I think that the use of these database systems in today's IT shops
> > > > is sometimes well beyond the scope of their theoretical academic
> > > > treatment, and that there is a great deal under the hood of the
> > > > modern rdbms that was not in the database last decade.
> > > >
> > > Pete,
> > >
> > > The statement, which you seem agree with, is in no way "more
practical"
> > than
> > > Darwen's observation. In fact, the statement given by Dawn doesn't
> define
> > a
> > > database correctly -- Data in a storage device, with "information
about
> > that
> > > data", is not a database; just think about it.
> > >
> > > A set of propositions is a formal, succinct, clear and generic
> definition
> > of
> > > a database.
> > >
> > > To understand why this is the correct interpretation of a database,
you
> > have
> > > to know precisely what data is, how one should represent data to
derive
> > > maximum benefits, why it is important to separate data storage aspects
> > from
> > > data representation etc. These are not academic treatments, as you put
> it;
> > > but simple yet crucial fundamentals which you ought to know.
> > >
> > > --
> > > - Anith
> > > ( Please reply to newsgroups only )
> > >
> >
> > I would agree that there certainly could be a word that means "a set of
> > propositions" but if someone tells me that they have a database, I
expect
> it
> > to be a set of propositions that are stored somewhere and that can be
> > queried, don't you?

>

I have no problem with abstract concepts (as my masters degree in pure mathematics might attest to) and I do understand the abstract concept of a data model. However, I think there ought to be a word for what most people call a "database" as in "how can I access that database?" or "when was the test database last refreshed with production data?" or "can you download that information from your database into a spreadsheet for me?" or "we need to do a restore of the database from last night"

For THAT concept -- the one where a database actually exists and can be actually query and not just abstractly queried, what word do you use? --dawn

> > It is fine to take abstract concepts and define them
> > abstractly, but to take a word that for decades has been interpreted to
> mean
> > something concrete and extract only the abstract qualities of it, seems
> > irresponsible. Otherwise, what would you call what I think is a
database?
> >
> > Thanks! --dawn
> >
> >
> --
> - Anith
> ( Please reply to newsgroups only )
>
> Received on Wed Jan 07 2004 - 16:42:39 CET