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Re: Career Advise - Database Management

From: DA Morgan <>
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:39:13 -0700
Message-ID: <1126798700.355488@yasure>

Mark C. Stock wrote:
> "DA Morgan" <> wrote in message
> news:1126755534.274708_at_yasure...

>>Mark C. Stock wrote:
>>>corporate instructor lead training goes for from $420 up to $550 or more 
>>>seat per day these days -- so at the low-end, $6k would covers about 14 
>>>at 'standard' rates -- some 'boot camp' courses are listed for $9,495 for 
>>>days, including meals and accomodations
>>On the basis that no one is going to apply for a Visa and move to the
>>US because I post this I will speak from experience.
>>University of Washington Oracle program: 9 months: Less than $2,000.
>>Puget Sound Oracle Users Group: all day hands-on classes with each
>>student getting their own server: ~$450/day.
>>$6,000 for an OCP course is outrageous.
>>Daniel A. Morgan
>>(replace x with u to respond)

> so PSOUG's class verifies the going daily rate... but presumably the content
> and quality is at the high end of the spectrum

Maximum class size 8 students.
Each student with their own server is expensive. The user group only runs one or two classes a month. So the entire cost of hardware, software, insurance, facilities, etc. must be paid for from only those few students. It is not intended to be a for-profit venture: And it isn't. ;-)

> how many classroom hours for the UW program?


> likely the per hour cost will
> be less than ILT, but for a true comparison of options, you've got to
> compare course content.

Here's the content in very rough form for the first quarter (30 hours)

1. Concepts and architecture
2. Logical and physical constructs
3. Tables (all of them including GTT, External, IOT, Partitioning)
4. Clusters
5. Constraints (all of them including DEFERRABLE and the EXCEPTIONS INTO 
6. Views (including view constraints)
7. Materialized Views
8. DML (including joins, string, numeric, date, and some analytic functions)
9. Transaction model

And beginning this year ... in 10g Release 2 so we will be covering the new "basics" such as COMMIT WRITE BATCH, COMMIT WRITE WAIT, etc.

> would 4.44444 PSOUG classes provide the same benefit as the UW program?
> more? good. less? then $450 may be outrageous as well.

Wholly different subjects. The user group only teaches subjects not taught anywhere else. The RAC class, for example, starts with formatted hard disks and no network. Students build the network, install the O/S, install the clusterware, then the Oracle binaries, etc. Even Oracle itself doesn't deal with the o/s, storage, and network issues. Other topics the user group classes cover are Grid Control, DataGuard, Advanced Queueing, Warehouse Builder, etc. Just a completely different type of class as they are all hand's-on and very real-world.

> how many days of (quality) 'corporate' ILT training do you think would be
> needed to cover the content that the UW program covers?

I'm not sure how I could estimate that. The UW program is 90 hours of pure lecture. Student survey indicate that the students, doing their homework, average 3 to 5 hours for every hour of classroom instruction. Keep in mind the students at the U are not 20 year olds whose education is being paid for by Mom and Dad. They are adult professionals, most with CS degrees just learning a new skill. They are, to say the least, very highly self-motivated. That 270 to 450 hours of homework ... is self assigned. I never actually assign homework. I don't think your typical corporate employee has what it takes to do this.

> If the $6k program covers the same material, with the same educational
> benefit, as the UW program, then the $4k premium for expediency is pretty
> steep. If it covers less, that's even worse. But if it covers more, then the
> ROI comparison changes, no?
> ++ mcs

Far far less for $6000 by definition. Simply put the $6000 program's goal is that you can score 60% on a multiple choice test. The goal from the university program is that, or similar companies, will hire you (27 former students have been at Amazon and another is being interviewed this week). A very substantially higher bar.

Note: For those wondering ... university classes such as mine are not financially subsidized by government/tax payers. They must be financially self-supporting. And to re-emphasize this is not spam: The class is already full for the 2005-2006 academic year so promoting it would be a complete waste of my time. Thus I am not doing so here. This post is just to emphasize that many of the commercial education programs are outrageously expensive and do not measure up in terms of value to even the programs offered by user groups. Speaking of which both the NYOUG (New York), RMOUG (Rocky Mountain), and NoCOUG (Northern California) Oracle User Groups do excellent education programs. Probably others too but I am just not as aware of their activities.

Daniel A. Morgan
(replace x with u to respond)
Received on Thu Sep 15 2005 - 10:39:13 CDT

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