Re: Sensible and NonsenSQL Aspects of the NoSQL Hoopla

Dana utorak, 24. rujna 2013. 01:57:40 UTC+2, korisnik James K. Lowden napisao je:
> On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 15:27:04 -0700 (PDT)
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> vldm10 <vldm10_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
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> > Dana srijeda, 4. rujna 2013. 18:35:36 UTC+2, korisnik Jan Hidders
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> > napisao je:
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> > > Codd explicitly referred to first-order logic in his work, so the
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> > > link with Frege was clearly made.
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> >
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> > Gottlob Frege is a scientist, who in the last ten years, emerges to
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> > the surface as a scientist of great importance. Lately, more and more
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> > scientists reveals its importance in mathematics, philosophy and
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> > other sciences. Some of the most famous scientists proclaim him as
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> > the greatest mathematician and philosopher, so far.
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> ...
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> > 3) Frege developed completely FOL. He introduced formal language for
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> > FOL and he developed philosophy for spoken languages. I will mention
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> > only the part which is related to Predicate Calculus. I will briefly
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> > described Frege?s ideas that are related to sentences, names and
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> > predicates. I already mentioned that the meaning of a sentence is its
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> > truth value. The meaning of names was elaborated in Frege?s deep
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> > theory about names. This theory has changed many things in science.
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> > So if somebody says that E. Codd was the first who introduced the new
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> > representation of the relations by using names, then it is the false
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> > sentence. Even more, it seems to me that this claim implies that E.
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> > Codd in fact introduced relationships between names and predicates.
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> Vladimir, I don't know what you're so exercised about.
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> However important Frege may be, predicate logic was only something
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> Codd used. I'm unware of any claim he made to extending it. The
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> idea that one could convert the proposition
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> the box is red
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> to the predicate
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> ? is red
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> has been around a long time. No one disputes that.
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> Codd simply applied logic to database theory, which at the time didn't
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> exist. But simple it wasn't, and isn't yet still.
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> When nearly everyone else was treating database management as an
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> engineering problem -- as, by and large, everyone still does -- Codd
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> recognized that databases could be defined in terms of predicates, thus
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> vastly simplifying the query language, never mind query construction.
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> That was a great insight. He may not have been the only one to have
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> it, but he got credit for it. Someone must, just ask Leibniz. He also
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> carried the ball far enough to change the industry for the better,
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> something that doesn't happen very often. And he left us a theory that
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> has yet to be improved on in any fundamental way. Not bad for an
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> afternoon's work.
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> Lots of people work in a field for a lifetime without advancing it one
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> iota. For all intents and purposes, Codd invented his. Don't you
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> think that's worthy of recognition?
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> --jkl

My bad English sometimes is not appropriate, especially when I'm writing in a hurry. Actually I wanted to say the following: Codd just applied Frege's theory to database theory.

The other thing I wanted to say is that Codd should quote Frege's work, because here come the whole theories as Propositional Logic, FOL, Semantics, etc. which are completely changed a spirit of mathematics. Frege's mathematics is applied to databases, meaning this is very complex application of mathematics. I mean, application of Frege's math are much more complex than applications of classic math.

In my opinion, people who want to have a good understanding of relational databases and who want to study it, they have to know where the source of these important theories is. That source is the theories which were built by G. Frege. Otherwise, if someone does not read G. Frege's theory, I do not believe that this person will understand well RM. Every person has the right to the original source.

In this thread I am talking exclusively about the data model. Of course, Codd is credited for the raising the theory of databases on the scientific level. It is clear that Codd did a lot of other things that have significant scientific value, for example FDs and Relation Algebra. Note that Codd, is perhaps the only person who was able to create the new theory of database and implement it in practice as totally dominant data model.

Finally, I would like to say that Frege's work, are not understood by his contemporaries. In Germany, the best mathematicians did not understand Frege's work. Italian mathematician Giuseppe Peano fully had understood Frege's theory. In fact, Peano and Frege are the real founders of mathematical logic. In my opinion, B. Russell sets back Frege's work. After Russell's letter to Frege about the paradox in Frege's theory, Frege has stopped working for a longer period.

Vladimir Odrljin Received on Thu Sep 26 2013 - 00:05:06 CEST