Re: Lucid statement of the MV vs RM position?
From: paul c <toledobythesea_at_oohay.ac>
Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 00:06:43 GMT
Message-ID: <nGw6g.124252$P01.54910_at_pd7tw3no>
>
>
> Shouldn't it suffice to point her to the principle of separating
> concerns or the concept of orthogonality? After all, she claims to have
> a background in mathematics.
>
>
>
>
> Is that a polite way of saying she is a self aggrandizing ignorant?
>
>
>
>
> Yay! We have an ally!
>
> Ask yourself: Is reading the voluminous posts of a handful of cranks an
> effective way to manage your time? How much time does it take each day?
> What benefits do you get from reading all of that stuff? How many decent
> pedagogic opportunities arise? Would you find similar opportunities if
> you just read posts by other people? Would you get the same personal
> benefits?
>
> Now consider your other options. What benefits would you get from
> devoting more time to your girlfriend? How much value would she place on
> that time?
> ...
Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 00:06:43 GMT
Message-ID: <nGw6g.124252$P01.54910_at_pd7tw3no>
Bob Badour wrote:
> Jan Hidders wrote:
>
>> dawn wrote: >> >>> Jan Hidders wrote: >>> >>>> dawn wrote: >>>> >>>>> OK, so you told me the jury was out regarding modeling and >>>>> implementing >>>>> with non-1NF data (or something like that); >>>> >>>> >>>> Not exactly. What the jury is out on is whether you can still have both >>>> efficiency and data-independence at the same time, which requires >>>> powerful query optimization. >>> >>> >>> Ah, that data independence thing again. >> >> >> Yep. >> >>> There are plenty of >>> requirements and I definitely do not want changes in the need for >>> additional disk or any physical changes like that to prompt a change in >>> software, but I still don't grok this requirement fully. >> >> >> ?? That has only marginally to do with data independence.
>
>
> Shouldn't it suffice to point her to the principle of separating
> concerns or the concept of orthogonality? After all, she claims to have
> a background in mathematics.
>
>
>>> For example, do we want the requirement that if data are moved from >>> schema-A on host-A managed by subsidiary-A to schema-B on host-B >>> managed by subsidiary-B, then must not be a need to change the logical >>> data model used by the applications, so that applications can run >>> without changes simply by redirecting (outside of the apps) requests >>> for such data to another data source? Obviously, that would be nice. >> >> >> ?? That is also not really a typical case of data independence. >> >> Are you seriously telling me you do not understand the fact that if I >> organize the same data differently on my disks this influences my >> ability to efficiently answer certain queries? Have you never done any >> programming that concerned disk-based data structures and algorithms >> that went beyond the trivial? Your comments give this impression.
>
>
> Is that a polite way of saying she is a self aggrandizing ignorant?
>
>
>>> I'd like to take the overall functional requirements for a database >>> management system (which are not the same for every organization, I >>> will grant) and optimize all together rather than declaring a single >>> non-functional requirement as fixed in stone, while users might not get >>> what they need. Obviously, we want to have maintainability, >>> reliability, security, and all other non-functional requirements met, >>> but these need to be turned into functional requirements, it seems, >>> before they can be tested. >> >> >> Depends a bit on your notion of 'functional requirement' but things >> like security can certainly judge by the presence or absence of certain >> features. >> >> I think I'll stop here. Not that I don't have anything to say about >> your other comments, but my time is limited, my girl-friend is getting >> impatient, and I'd rather focus on one or two points than have ten >> micro-debates within a discussion.
>
>
> Yay! We have an ally!
>
> Ask yourself: Is reading the voluminous posts of a handful of cranks an
> effective way to manage your time? How much time does it take each day?
> What benefits do you get from reading all of that stuff? How many decent
> pedagogic opportunities arise? Would you find similar opportunities if
> you just read posts by other people? Would you get the same personal
> benefits?
>
> Now consider your other options. What benefits would you get from
> devoting more time to your girlfriend? How much value would she place on
> that time?
> ...
Don't know much about girlfriends except how mine eventually told me how little I know, ie. nothing. But even if he gets in trouble, I hope Jan will take comfort in knowing that he has been performing a public service AFAIAC. Sometimes I think that the world can absorb only small amounts of progress at one time. Sorry for being off-topic, will try to shut up for another month or so.
p Received on Fri May 05 2006 - 02:06:43 CEST