Re: Oracle to double hiring of Indians

-- 
"Bababobo" <bababobo_at_bangkok.com> wrote in message
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> I share your experiences. In the past, during the Y2K boom, you could


> find the Indians all over the globe, with mainly fake resumes and

> 'countrymen buddies' helping them; brother became dba, after that even

> father and 3 sisters followed to become 'sudden' senior-dba's, etc...

> you know. I have met 'professionals' who were completely, and I mean

> really dumbass, unaware of practical lifetime situations. They did

> everything to get out of their miserable country, even if it means

> lying and cheating...

>

> On the other hand; some are excellent. So dont blame them all. Its

> just that there are too many of them, and many of them LIE and cannot

> be trusted.

>

> Remember: same miserable thing happened with Baan company. Complete

> dumbass indians jumped into the ship with fake resumes. See what

> happened with that company! If Oracle is doing the same, it will end

> sooner or later with angry customers, and dropping sharevalues, unless

> Oracle has strong quality control. Lets hope for the latter.

>

> sybrandb_at_yahoo.com wrote in message

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> > subrown_at_start.com.au (Sub) wrote in message

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> > > sybrandb_at_yahoo.com wrote in message

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> > > > coldrainandsnow_at_lycos.com (Jitendra Patel) wrote in message

news:<7610580f.0307120937.21ba3ed6_at_posting.google.com>...


> > > > > Yes, this is most wonderful news.


> > > > >

> > > > > Because Indians work for one-forth the cost of UK people, I hope

to


> > > > > see Indians take a much larger share of Oracle jobs for companies


> > > > > across the world.

> > > > >

> > > > > Oracle DBA people can work remotely from Bangalore, saving Oracle

> > > > > customers billions of pounds in labour costs.

> > > >

> > > > A most annoying development. Indian people employed by Oracle have

> > > > learned to follow a script, instead of learning to think, and their

> > > > lack of politeness is appalling.

> > > > The dire consequences will be seen soon.

> > > > I don't hope to see Oracle support being taken over by trained

> > > > monkeys.

> > > >

> > > > Sybrand Bakker

> > > > Senior Oracle DBA

> > >

> > > I think India has one of the most gracious and competent people in the

> > > world. What makes you think that they're not so?

> >

> >

> > Practical experience. Calling me with my last name only has to be

> > considered rude, and just ignoring the customer considers the

> > experienced behavior of Oracle as a bug is definitely

> > customer-unfriendly. As the experienced behavior was connecting to an

> > incorrect instance due to incorrect configuration for the MTS

> > parameters, and it was not apparent from the docs the configuration

> > was incorect, and the rep didn't want to do anything about it, the

> > whole experience was most annoying.

> > My own experience in other companies with Indians is also, that

> > anything which is written down in a book must be the ultimate truth.

> > So usually you have a hard time convincing them they are wrong, and

> > they can be quite stubborn.

> > I don't share your judgement with respect to their competencey, I'd

> > rather don't want to work with Indians again.

> > As far as I am concerned this is a bad move (tm) which Oracle is going

> > to pay for.

> >

> > Sybrand Bakker

> > Senior Oracle DBA



I agree with you such companies as Intel are doing this and shipping a lot
of jobs over to India, China, and Russia.(so they can close plants in Oregon
etc for "cheaper" plants in India.  There is a whole new set of BUZZ words
(something like capability maturity model or some such thing.)  to "support"
this.(written by a gentleman of Indian extraction)  Basically, it is
documenting all the things in a system or a set of work so some monkey with
a modicum of intelligence could supposedly do the job.  (by monkey I mean
someone unfamiliar with the system and low paid - so before someone thinks I
am making a racist comment let me assure you it has nothing to do with
race.) The fallacy is that
1. Systems usually are not documented that well no matter how hard one
tries.
2. If it is "documented" the document is immediately out of date as soon as
some change occurs.
3. If the system does not change then it quickly loses its value.
4. The documentation cannot really be used as a replacement for 1st
principals.  In mathematics it is what we call "plug and chug".  That is I
plug in the parameters and solve for X.  The problem is that in the real
world you have to know first principals to pick the right equation for the
right task and sometimes you need to generate your own equation from, you
guessed it, first principals.
5. The little nuances of development are lost by being 11.5 hours and a day
different.  Only so much can happen in email and in conference calls.
6. Differences in culture and language.  These are many and have nothing to
do with intelligence.  These are what are never on the bean counters list of
cons.  Why?  Because to bean counters people are pluggable modules. (maybe
we should get rid of all the native bean counters and just use Indian or
Chinese ones?  Hmmm, that's an idea.)

Jim