Re: Oracle and Non-Green Card Indians

I am not an Oracle spokesman.

That said, let me also say that I am glad that Oracle apparently decided not to hire Mr. Smith.

Mike Friedman

In article <1994Nov17.140827.2905_at_decus> y_baumert_at_decus.ch (YVONNE BAUMERT, DECUS EUROPE AD-SIG CHAIR) writes:
>Please David,
>
>stop disqualifying yourself.
>When I wrote my first answer I hadn't read so far. Don't forget Chris is
>right. Anybody who is responsible for hiring and follows this will not employ
>somebody who is so aggressive and negative. And this is not only in the US but
>throuout the world.
>
>And don't forget for an international company like ORACLE it is very important
>to have multicultural working groups. That's how you get different ideas and
>get the tiny bit of advantage that makes you one of the leading corporations in
>the business.
>
>Please Stop
>
>Yours
>
>Yvonne (I'm not an ORACLE employee)
>
>To anybody else:
>
>Don't take my courage writing and replying in news. As I am not a native
>speaker(writer) and as I have never lived in an English speaking country
>you might find some strange grammar structures and mixed British and American
>spelling which is actually very often very different.
>
>Thank you for your understanding.
>
>Yvonne Baumert
>
>-----------------------------cut here----------------------------------------
>
>In article <smithCz5Gzs.8s2_at_netcom.com>, smith_at_netcom.com ( David Smith at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo) writes:
>> David B Criswell (dcriswel_at_us.oracle.com) wrote:
>>
>> : Disclaimer: Yes, I work for you know who. If I were their spokesman,
>> : I'd probably make it through this post without using the word
>> : "pinhead". I'm not.
 

>> : smith_at_netcom.com ( David Smith at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo) writes:
 

>> : >Oracle Corporation, currently hires enourmous amounts of Indians
>> : [...]
>> : some racist ranting deleted
>> : [Btw, why do none of the ranters have spelling checkers?]
>>
>> To give you smug pinheads something to twit about.
>>
>> : >You will find them, not
>> : >only programming or what have you, but also manning the technical support
>> : >lines in large numbers. Seems odd to put recent immigrants
>> : >on a phone support
>> : >line, but Oracle knows that a desperate immigrant fleeing his
>> : >impoverished country, will work for less, and they will save a few pennies.
 

>> : Um, that's "recent immigrants from an English speaking former British
>> : colony, who've spent at least four years in an english-speaking university".
>> : I don't see what's wrong with that.
>>
>> Sorry, Cris, they are pre-Green card folks that your corporation is soaking
>> up by the tanker full. What's wrong with that? Don't ask me, just ask all the
>> underemployed computer science grads that you went to school with. We don't
>> owe Americans anything do we? Let's open up the floodgates completely, and
>> then Oracle can hire so many Chinese and Indians, that David Criswell can
>> become lead sanitary engineer.
>>
>> : >Sadly, there is such a surplus of Americans looking for Computer Science type
>> : >jobs, that a 2 or 3 line classified ad looking for a programmer or
>> : >network person etc., will draw 200 resumes in a week,
 

>> : Yes, you're right. A classified ad would draw 200 resumes from incompetant
>> : chuckleheads that aren't worth my time to read. That is why most managers
>> : at Oracle that I know don't advertise open positions that way.
>>
>> Well, I guess that has it Cris, Indians are superior to Americans. Gee, isn't
>> it funny how the racism of you American haters always comes out. By the way,
>> do you think the fact that they get hundreds of pre-Green card Indians who
>> work for less than the going wage, and have the threat of deportation
>> hanging over their heads, making them very pliable employees, has anything to
>> do with the fact that they don't want Americans, or is it all about a racial
>> bias?
>>
>> : >and a large amount of
>> : >those being from Computer Science graduates who have been unable to land
>> : >their first job.
 

>> : Oracle does not owe you a job because you cannot find one. Oracle does
>> : recruit at Cal Poly, so if you hurry on down to the career center you
>> : might catch the recruiter. They hire very large amounts of just-out-of
>> : school folks - the average age here was 24 last I checked.
>>
>> Oracle, can legally hire as many thousands of non-resident Indians as it
>> wants Criswell, but you are on unknown turf here, this is all about moral
>> values dude. Why would I want to work with a huge cultural barrier between
>> me and my co-workers, with the exception of some smug American hating Americans
>> like yourself? Plus, it would be so monotonous going to all those going
>> away luncheons, as each Indian gets his green card after a while, and then
>> exits stage left, doubletime!
>>
>> : BTW, those of us who are qualified have job offers up the wazoo,
>> : unsolicited, so I know there's jobs out there. There's tons of
>> : positions (inappropriately) posted here in this newsgroup, as well.
>>
>> Right, tons of positions. Ever been to a job fair, and seen the deperate
>> techical college graduates, swarming the booths for a few positions.
>> Or do you just hang out in those green towers in Redwood Shores playing
>> find the curry sauce?
>>
>> : >Is is morally right to allow Oracle to save a few bucks
>> : >while Americans with Computer Science degrees are unemployed.
 

>> : I'd be interested in seeing the data that Oracle's entry-level salaries
>> : are below the industry average. My sources are highly biased, but
>> : they seem to indicate that the opposite is true and personal experience
>> : backs that up.
>>
>> We are talking about what they pay all the non-green card Indians. Not the
>> sanctimonious David Criswell types.
>>
>> : >Would the
>> : >average American Computer Science graduate really be unable to man Oracle's
>> : >tech support phones?
 

>> : I'd rather hire an above average Computer Science graduate than an average
>> : one. If you're average, you don't stand a snowball's chance in hell here.
>> : If you're _way_ above average, you can make the team and who gives a toss
>> : what color your skin is.
>>
>> Just the accounts I suppose, who see green when they find desperate hordes
>> of non-residents willing to work for less.
>>
>> : Point is, if I'm hiring someone I'm counting on them to snatch my butt
>> : out of the fire now and then. I expect to do the same. I want someone I
>> : can count on, not some pinhead who mewls plaintively about white males
>> : being an oppressed class.
>>
>> I am sure your butt is in the fire quite a bit, and it does take 2 non-green
>> card Indians for the price of one American, to save it, continuously. I guess
>> not many self-hating Americans, to fill your shoes so willingly up their
>> with the newly non-immigrated Indians.
>>
>>
>> : >Would they be worse at it? Are the Indians racially
>> : >superior?
 

>> : Don't know, but the ones I've worked with have been pretty damned
>> : impressive, and I'm _not_ an easy judge.
>>
>> Yeah, like most smug, self-absorbed, cocky know-it-alls, you probably have
>> to have it kissed on both cheeks, in a manner only desperate non-resident
>> are willing to do.
>>
>> : >I ask you Oracle advocates of the world.
 

>> : David Duke is looking for a speechwriter - that's more your speed. Here,
>> : you have demonstrated an inability to work with some of my team.
>>
>> Dave "If you are not for non-resident, pre-Green card, Indians coming over
>> here and taking tons of nice desirable comoputer science jobs at below
>> market wages, then you must be Hitler" Criswell
>>
>> aka David "If I get smug enough and extreme enough, maybe people will forget
>> about all the tons of Indians taking jobs from Americans, thanks to the
>> Oracle Corporation hiring practices" Criswell
>>
>> : Dave Criswell
 

>> : P.S. You've also offended many of the Senior VP's and managers who
>> : might hire you.
>>
>> Well, then have the ones I haven't offended give me a call.
>>
>> : P.P.S. Don't even think of applying at Gupta.
>>
>> Do they prefer to hire around the immigration laws like your employer,
>> Oracle Corporation?
Received on Fri Dec 02 1994 - 01:59:00 CET