Re: command line vs grid control

From: DA Morgan <damorgan_at_psoug.org>
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:50:32 -0700
Message-ID: <1184079031.522604@bubbleator.drizzle.com>

Noons wrote:
> On Jul 9, 11:31 pm, DA Morgan <damor..._at_psoug.org> wrote:
>

>> A lot of them are paying for it though I doubt it is because
>> of bullying.

>
> I doubt a "lot" are paying for it. That is most certainly
> not the case in sites I know of and I do know a LOT
> of them.

Most of the large firms here are using the Grid and are happy. Among them I might mention a very large aerospace firm.

>> The reality is that for most organizations they can use the
>> grid and reduce cost by keeping on salary fewer DBAs and
>> making those DBAs more productive because they are not wasting
>> their time writing archaic shell scripts among other busy work.

>
> You know, that old story about the "expensive dba
> writing scripts" is such old hat... Whoever invented that one
> in Oracle marketing hasn't got a CLUE what the real work
> of a dba is!

If you believe that is wholly myth I have some wonderful beachfront property I want to sell you. It may be a myth where you are ... but it isn't here.

>> In my region a fully burdened DBA costs an organization about 200K
>> per year (salary, desk, computer, insurance, vacation, sick leave,
>> etc.). You can buy a lot of Grid Control for $200K and that's just
>> for one year.

>
> Yeah, and that will cost you a bundle. Plus it will only effectively
> control Oracle databases and will require the undivided attention
> of that dba to configure and use effectively. Yes, I know it can
> be extended to control other databases. Have you quantified
> how many hours of work go into that? I have: not a pretty sight.

Depends on what you expect it to do. If the point is to determine which resources are up/down then the hours is roughly 0.5 per server. If you are talking about writing your own plugin, of course, that is quite another matter.

But "undivided attention?" You must be doing something with the Grid I'm not familiar with. Out here we have it contact us ... we don't sit at the monitor eyes glued to the screen.

> How many sites only run Oracle compared to sites who run
> mixed dbs? Why would mixed sites invest such a large
> sum in grid to monitor half a dozen dbs while buying
> themselves a load of pain to modify it for the hundreds of
> other dbs? When Quest's tools for example cost a fraction
> and achieve exactly the same for just about EVERY db
> supplier out there?

Quite a few are so the question should be put to them which I have done. And the answer is always that they save money. You don't have to have a single tool to manage all of your IT resources. Just one tool that manages one type of resource and saves money or breaks even. If I can not hire one additional DBA I save $200K.

Turn the question around. Assuming the life of the product is 5 years how much grid control can you purchase for $1,000,000? And it doesn't take a vacation or leave for dinner with the family or catch an attitude in the middle of a meeting?

>> The ones that are buying it are not being bullied ... they are
>> making decisions based on finances.

>
> Rubbish. The ones buying it have enough budget to do
> so to start with and their management wouldn't know a
> busy dba from a flat pole!

Enough budget is irrelevant. For-profit business exist to make a profit. And upper management, unless you've somehow missed the offshoring trend issue budget-irrelevant mandates with respect to FTEs.

>> Viewed from the narrow window of monitoring other products may cost
>> less. But they won't manage RMAN, or Data Guard, or RAC, or ....
>> It isn't such a bad deal from the corporate standpoint unless viewed
>> from the chair of the marginally productive DBA whose goal is job
>> retention.

>
> That is absolute rubbish and you know it.
> The theory that any dba who doesn't buy into the "corporate
> view" of Oracle marketing must be an inefficient dba only
> interested in job retention is quite frankly a pile of dung.
> Or a pile of FUD, which is just about the same.

The way you rephrased what I wrote is rubbish. The list of people I know with marginally efficient DBAs? Lets not go there in public.

But anytime you think an Oracle salesperson capable of bullying the likes of AT&T, Boeing, Amazon.com, etc. I'd like to meet that salesperson. There are a couple of guys that owe me money. <g>

Lighten up noon ... OEM grid has its place. Perhaps not in every firm. But in enough that it makes a big difference.

-- 
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan_at_x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group
www.psoug.org

Received on Tue Jul 10 2007 - 09:50:32 CDT