RE: OT -- Boston Globe job listings

Companies will wake up--or as likely--the offshore techies' skills will grow with experience & their work product will get better.

Hopefully they'll also raise their prices at that point, tho they'll still have to entice companies to deal with the geographic/time/cultural differences so I'd guess there was a limit on how much they can do.

Is anyone in IT immune to this trend? Maybe business analysts, due to the face-to-face they have to have w/the principles of the business?

Cheers,

-Roy

Roy Pardee
Programmer/Analyst/DBA
SWFPAC Lockheed Martin IT
Extension 8487

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 9:09 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

When I worked for Oracle's custom development group I worked on a large conversion project that employed about 350 consultants (150 from Oracle). They had a number of foreign consultants on the project. About 1 in 10 had technical skills that were above mediocre, but they worked cheap. The code they produced was a mess and we at Oracle wondered how much time / money would have to be spent after the fact to clean up what the company got on the cheap. You get what you pay for. I have dealt with offshore technical Oracle staff and have found them to be cheap in cost but very poor overall in the quality of what they delivered. Companies will wake up to this sooner or later.

Ken

• Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 10:59 AM

> <inline>
>
> > But now I keep seeing
> > articles about how much development work is being sent
> > overseas. Has anyone seen that affect Oracle DBA work yet?
>
> Huge discussions going on here at work about that very subject. So far,
no one has come up with a reasonable argument for keeping the jobs in-house. At the gut level it 'feels' like we should keep the jobs in-house and that would be an overall benefit to the economy, too. However, the financial argument of should I pay 75K - 120K a year for US based DBAs or pay 45K - 80K for offshore talent is hard to beat. The money ranges I gave are contract employee/job shop type of quotes, IOW, a 75K US position would be for a junior DBA that is actually getting 35K-40K and so on up the skill range.
>
> v/r
>
> Stephen S. Wolfe, GS-11, DAFC
> Data Services Manager
> stephen.wolfe_at_macdill.af.mil
> (813) 827-9974 DSN 651-9974
>
>
> >
> > Dennis Williams
> > DBA
> > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com <mailto:dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 9:14 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > I don't think it has as much to do with no available
> > positions (although that is part of the answer) as most
> > medium to large companies don't use newspaper ads anymore.
> > They are using the internet (especially for technical jobs)
> > and are signed up with Monster, BrassRing, etc. to do their
> > recruiting for them from their own company web sites. I've
> > seen this definite shift here in the Minneapolis / St. Paul,
> > MN area over the past couple of years. Most of these
> > companies also provide e-mail service that sends you an email
> > when a job is posted that meets your specs. So, why waste
> > your time on newspaper ads that only appear every Sunday?
> >
> > My $0.02 worth,
> >
> > Ken Janusz, CPIM
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 6:34 AM
> >
> >
> > > I've been keeping an eye on the Boston Globe's Oracle DBA job
> > > postings,
> > two
> > > years ago it wasn't uncommon to see eight or more per week,
> > now I tend
> > > to see one or two, or none.
> > >
> > > For a while they also announced big IT job fairs, I don't
> > know if they
> > still
> > > do that or how successful they now are.
> > >
> > > The market has really shrunk in two years!
> > >
> > > There can't be a huge glut of DBAs out there looking for
> > work... It
> > > must
> > be
> > > a reduction in demand because companies are not making big
> > > infrastructure changes anymore.
> > >
> > > Patrice.
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > --
> > > Author: Boivin, Patrice J
> > > INET: BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
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Author: Pardee, Roy E
  INET: roy.e.pardee_at_lmco.com

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