Re: The MySQL/PHP pair

"Laconic2" <laconic2_at_comcast.net> wrote:

>"Gene Wirchenko" <genew_at_mail.ocis.net> wrote in message
>news:ed1io01krh95t861k6b7bbh6pmnvhp7nd2_at_4ax.com...
>
>> Well, you harp about a mathematical proof for the necessity of
>> 1NF, so how you supply a mathematical proof?
>
>I beg your pardon, but it's not up to her to prove this, mathematically. If
>her assertion that Codd et al never made such a claim holds up to the study
>of the published work, then her claim of the absence of demonstrated
>methematical necessity for 1NF stands.

     She claims it is unnecessary. Let her prove it.

>If the were to make a further claim that 1NF is mathematically unnecessary,
>it would be necessary for her to back up that claim. But her claim, AFAIK
>is not that. It is that there is no claim or proof that 1NF is
>mathematically necessary.

     I think that is what she is doing. She keeps mentioning that we have to get past 1NF.

>Do you see the difference?

     I do not think that that applies.

>> You really have a bee in your bonnet about 1NF. You say that you
>> know x or that you are unsure about another x, but regardless, you
>> still push that view on 1NF. After due consideration, I have come to
>> think of you as a kook w.r.t. 1NF. That is not a compliment.
>
>Agreed.

     Why I finally used that label is the way she carries on. No proof, yet she asserts and asserts and asserts. Having an opinion is one thing. Time and time insisting that we have to get past 1NF because of its supposed (but not proven) non-necessity is another.

>I honestly never had a great deal of difficulty putting data in 1NF. On the
>contrary, I've had a great deal of difficulty dealing with fundamentally
>unnormalized data that has been put into tabular form, and masquerades as
>1NF data. example: crosstabulated data that uses values as column headers.

     Same with me.

>But her expereince is that 1NF was a huge obstacle to productivity among
>Oracle teams, when compared to COBOL/CICS teams or Pick teams. She's got
>other questions as well: whether a DBMS is part of the solution or part of
>the problem.

     True, but no proof. Why was it so? Is it really the fault of 1NF? Might it be the understanding of 1NF? Might it be something totally different?

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:

     I have preferences.
     You have biases.
     He/She has prejudices.