Re: In an RDBMS, what does "Data" mean?
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 01:37:08 GMT
Message-ID: <40d4ea3f.9273674_at_news.wanadoo.es>
On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 09:27:18 +0100, Paul <paul_at_test.com> wrote:
>> If T is a set of axioms in a first-order language, and a statement p
>> holds for any structure M satisfying T, then p can be formally deduced
>> from T in some appropriately defined fashion.
>
>I think the problem is how do we apply this theorem to relational
>databases. The way I see it, it fits with what I said. :)
For instance it is possible to prove this:
a minus (a minus b) = a intersect b
>When you say "if a relational formula is valid or not" do you mean valid
>as in well-formed or valid as in true?
In true.
> If you mean true, then maybe we
>are just saying the same thing in different ways.
Yes. The antecedent and the consequent are equivalent.
> But I'm seeing the
>result as profound and you're seeing it as trivial.
>Thus I see Godel's completeness theorem as saying we can therefore prove
>the statement '(forall x) q(x,20)' purely syntactically i.e. without
>considering semantics at all.
Yes, it means that it is a FORMal statement because it is valid depending on the syntactical form and not on the semantics.
> The DBMS only knows syntax, not semantics.
>Thus the DBMS can prove the statement on its own.
Indeed.
>Now it's meaningless to ask whether our new predicate is true or not.
It is always meaningless to ask whether a predicate is true or not :)
What are true or not are the propositions.
>What we want to know is whether any question we ask in semantic terms
>can be answered syntactically. For example the question 'Does Alan like
>rice pudding?'.
var Likes relation { a char, b char };
Likes := relation {
tuple { a 'Alan', b 'Rice Pudding' }
};
if tuple { a 'Alan' } in (Likes where b = 'Rice Pudding') { a } then ...
>But I
>think that all first-order questions that can be answered semantically
>will translate to a syntactic question. Which can definitely be answered
>(by Godel's completeness theorem?)
Indeed.
Regards
Alfredo
Received on Sun Jun 20 2004 - 03:37:08 CEST