Em Mon, 17 May 2004 11:22:50 -0500, Dawn M. Wolthuis escreveu:
>> I maintain this is the case.
>
> Then you clearly don't know me.
It is not a question of who are you, but what you said, wasn't
truthful and you knew it.
>> You should have said 'I am not aware of' instead 'there is really'.
>
> I likely would have used that lesser phrase had I not been pursuing such
> proof for some time. It sounds like you believe that there is such proof,
> so please pass it along.
No, I am not aware of specific savings as in less dollars
spent. I never cared for that, since it was simply not necessary.
Going SQL -- which is still much more complicated than relational --
enabled us to do much it wasn't simply possible before.
Kinda like PCs add no productivity, and may even hinder it.
But we can't just imagine life without one, or even better an X
terminal.
I guess this is not the place to ask for such proof. Better
ask all those suits who spent huge money to get Oracle, SQL/DS and IBM
DB2 in the early days, and even before that were banging IBM's door
asking them to 'productise' System R because Codd made their eyes
glitter. Perhaps some of them lost their jobs due to inordinate
spending, but then this would have been a well-kept secret.
Now as for anedoctal evidence... in Banco Itaú, Brazil's
second biggest non-state bank -- banks here are less rich, but have
much bigger user bases than in the US, and quite some complexity too
due to inflation -- I served the paper exchange department. They had
some users who had learned IBM QMF on the 3278 -- not the world's most
user-friendly interface -- so they could query our database by
themselves, and so they did heartly. They couldn't write a line of
code otherwise.
At Global Telecom, then a cellular operator for two Brazilian
states, a Japanese suit who could barely communicate in English and
use MS Office took my SQLs and used them as templates to extract his
market information for our database.
Where I'm working we're finishing a retail and warehousing
project for a supermarket chain replacing their old xBase system,
because that system can't be data mined except by programming.
So nothing real here, only anedoctes. It is to the suits that
you have to ask for the financial demonstrations.
But it still fazes me why in the US you measure all by the
dollar. Somethings are so elegant to be self-evident.
> I will accept your criticism, but not due to your superiority in either
> category ;-)
Certainly not... I do not possess neither wide, deep
knowledge, nor striking humbleness. It is just that I don't like the
particular combination of not knowing something *and* pontificating
about it.
> I'm certain that I am ignorant of some areas you are not, and I willingly
> admit that, where I haven't seen much evidence of a similar wisdom from
> you.
Perhaps because we have been debating precisely an area where
you have problems understanding your limitations?
Perhaps if we were discussing your hobbies instead of mine...
> But, if you have evidence (not just anecdotes) of significant cost
> reductions in our industry due to the implementation of SQL-DBMS's over
> the past twenty-some years
Actually thirty.
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Received on Mon May 17 2004 - 20:32:42 CEST
