Re: Date's First Great Blunder

From: Anthony W. Youngman <>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:36:27 +0100
Message-ID: <>

In message <>, Alfredo Novoa <> writes
>On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:27:23 -0500, "Dawn M. Wolthuis"
><> wrote:
>>Not to me, it isn't. Mathematical models are simply models/metaphores.
>They are formal representations.

Of what? What do they represent? More mathematics?
>> The
>>discipline of "doing" relational theory could be seen as mathematics, but
>>the application of this mathematics to the discipline of application
>>software development has to do with a belief that this mathematical model
>>has something to do with the engineering effort underway.
>It should not have relationship with beliefs. It is proven that it is
>simpler than the known alternatives.

And where are your experiments? Where are your statistics? Or is your "proof" just more logic?

I thought using logic to prove things was thrown out with the renaissance. The modern way is to experiment.
>>Yes, it is a shame that those fresh out of higher ed do seem dogmatic about
>>both relational databases as being the best databases and OO as the best
>>programming languages, based not on practice, but the sermons they have
>>heard in the classroom and read in their text books.
>Most if not all of the advocates of the network and hierarchical
>approaches never tried The Relational Model, thus their experience has
>little value. It is hard to practice with something never implemented.

Ah. So the relational model has never been successfully implemented, then? How can it be "simpler", if it's too complicated to implement correctly?
>> The advocates in both
>>of these areas have a pitch that resonates with professors and/or text book
>>writers & publishers. I think both OO and relational theory ought to be
>>taught side by side with alternatives and pros & cons of each.
>I agree, although they are independent. Relational theory is for data
>management and OO is for coding.
>> There is not
>>one correct mathematical model for data, metadata, nor functions (by
>>whatever names).
>But there is one best approach for data management.

"There is one true way and anyone who believes otherwise is damned". Very religious, that ...

The rest I'll ignore as a bit beyond me.


Anthony W. Youngman - wol at thewolery dot demon dot co dot uk
HEX wondered how much he should tell the Wizards. He felt it would not be a
good idea to burden them with too much input. Hex always thought of his reports
as Lies-to-People.
The Science of Discworld : (c) Terry Pratchett 1999
Received on Wed Apr 21 2004 - 19:36:27 CEST

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