Re: dbms/rdbms software & its environment

What do you do for aliving Ruud?
Are you a brickie's laborer?

Mate, the entire evolution of computing may validly be resolved as an evolution in the ability to store a dynamic measure of organisational intelligence within the computing system.

A less general term than OI is "business rules". These are elements of organisational intelligence for a business organisation. Surely you can see that business rules can be encoded to a computer.

You will find evidence of Organisational Intelligence everywhere you look .... In the data such as contraints, etc and in the application source code.

Gimme a break dude.

Philosophically I'd agree with the statement that the world does not start and end with computers ---- there is more to the world. But this isn't the alt.philosophy.computer.OI newgroup.

Have a good weekend.

"Ruud de Koter" <ruud_dekoter_at_hp.com> wrote in message news:3FA23FCA.13665956_at_hp.com...
> Hi Farmer,
>
> This will not be a long and detailed reply to your remarks. I 'll just
state
> that you seem to miss the difference between computer systems and the rest
of
> the world as it exists out there. The fundamental problem you seem to
encounter
> is an unability to grasp that a computer system (and a database as well)
can
> only contain a representation of real-world fenomena. What is in a
computer is
> never the real thing.
>
> Consequently, organizational intelligence as such can never be stored (and
> fixed) into a computer system. Organizations are complex structures
consisting
> of people (most importantly), structures, buildings, and equipment. Those
are
> all real-world things. They do not exist in computers. They are registered
in
> computers, perhaps simulated, but they don't exist there.
>
> As long as computers are not intelligent, the same applies for
(organizational)
> intelligence: it resides in the people, perhaps in regulations, but not in
> computers (and don't start about regulations being implemented by means of
> computers, 'cause it 's still the regulations that are primary here).
>
> Think about this. Try and grasp this. I don't know about your background,
but do
> realize: the world doesn't start or end with computers.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ruud.
>
> mountain man wrote:
> >
> > "Ruud de Koter" <ruud_dekoter_at_hp.com> wrote in message
> > news:3FA0CEBA.654D6439_at_hp.com...
> > > Hi there,
> >
> > Good day.
> >
> > > mountain man wrote:
> > > >
> > > > There have been a few astute posts here and there
> > > > to the effect that notwithstanding the benefit of the
> > > > development of "the relational model" for databases,
> > > > for the last 20 years database theory (a la Date for
> > > > example) has remained database centric in its thinking.
> > > >
> > >
> > > You 're doing the same trick again: need to get the computer
environment
> > into
> > > database theory, 'cause it 's incomplete without it.
> >
> > What I am doing is trying to understand this implication.
> >
> > Is there anything wrong with trying to understand the nature of a
> > generalised computer system (os, rdbms,apps) in which the apps
> > environment has been contained within the rdbms?
> >
> > See below...
> >
> > > Gosh: need to get the organizational environment into computing
theory,
> > 'cause
> > > it 's no use without organization (wasn't it you writing about
> > organizational
> > > intellegence).
> > >
> > > Yeah: we 'll have to get the society as a whole into the
organizational
> > theory,
> > > 'cause the organization does not function in a vacuum.
> >
> > My article was about a term labelled organisational intelligence.
> > It is not a term used widely in theory.
> > As I have found since, the term is mainly used in selling.
> > This is unfortunate. My aim is the theory here.
> >
> > However in my article I defined OI quite specifically.
> > Firstly I loosely defined it to be that OI contained in the computer
> > software.
> > by this ... "the sum of the data plus the sum of the source code"
> >
> > I then derived a formula for the location and distribution of this OI
> > across a client server software environment consistent of:
> > * operating system software
> > * rdbms software
> > * application system software
> >
> > Give us a break. Do you understand the formula?
> >
> > > Your approach will lead you to a theory of everything. There are, at
least
> > to my
> > > knowledge, no good examples of theories of everything. That is simply
to
> > > complicated.
> >
> > I agree. TOES are not the whole appendage system.
> > You have missed the fundamental.
> >
> > In my case however, this theory has emerged after the contruction
> > of a software tool for the sql server rdbms whereby application software
> > components can be configured and stored as rdbms stored procedures.
> >
> > This tool is not complicated.
> > It is not a theory. It is a tool I developed in my trade as a database
> > engineer which has the potential to change the way application system
> > software components are stored.
> >
> > When an entire suite of application system software components
> > are represented and function as stored procedures within the rdbms
> > then what is left external to the rdbms software? Only this tool,
> > functioning as the interface between the user and the database.
> >
> > > One of the first steps in theory-building is choosing a limited field
of
> > which
> > > you can build a good (simplified) model. Try and make that step.
> >
> > In this case I have built the software first, as a tool of my trade.
> > It is a concrete thing, very simple, very straightforward.
> >
> > I walk into a sql server site with the tool and need no other
application
> > development tool to commence the development of applications. The
> > application development is accomplished by the development of stored
> > procedures. All this is quite internal to the rdbms.
> >
> > Nothing is external to the rdbms enviornment, except the tool.
> > (In terms of OI as defined: source code of the software and the data)
> >
> > I am trying to understand if this has theoretical implications.
> >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Ruud.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Farmer Brown
> > Falls Creek
> > OZ
> > www.mountainman.com.au/software
>
> --
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