Re: COMP.DATABASES.ORACLE split

In article <566fck$8tf_at_wormer.fn.net>, "Jack L. Swayze Sr." <keystrk_at_feist.com> writes
>Jim Smith <jim_at_jimsmith.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In article <55u512$ksk_at_wormer.fn.net>, "Jack L. Swayze Sr."
>>>
>>>If this is not a service for the customers of Oracle, then who is it a
>>>service for?
>>>
>>>Sheesh! Another one not knowing or caring about the customer!
>>>
 

>>Usenet newsgroups in general and comp.databases.oracle.* in particular
>>are nothing to do with Oracle Corporation.
>
><snip>
>
>I know that, silly.
>

Fuck off you patronising little turd.

>What you fail to realize is that, despite this newsgroup not being
>supplied from Oracle, it still has customers. Those customers are the
>people who are more interested in getting a database up and keeping it
>up rather than participate in the newsgroup form of politics.
>
It doesn't have customers, it has participants. Customers pay for a service and therefore have some rights. A newsgroup is a democratic organisation, not a commercial one.

>The very individuals who would add the most value to a newsgroup such
>as this will be the ones 1) chided the most for not understanding the
>split and 2) alienated by the loss of this newsgroup.
>
That is a bit arrogant. I haven't seen you add much value to this group other than ranting on pedantically about labels.

>What you guys from News.Groups fail to realize is the economics of
>this whole situation, and that is because you do not understand your
>customers, the readers and posters of the newsgroups.
>
I am not 'from News.Groups'. I am an Oracle DBA. The readers and posters of the newsgrops are the people who voted for the split.

>Borrowing from the discipline of ER-Diagramming, and Normalization, it
>is obvious to me that you should name things according to their most
>obvious purpose. Naming a group that is to (primarily) contain Jobs
>Postings something like: Comp.Databases.Oracle.Marketplace (or
>whatever) violates that principle. I would expect to see a newsgroup
>for job postings to have the word 'Job' in it.

The weakness of your argument is shown by latching on to the least important group name. Do you have any rational views on c.d.o tools, server, misc?

>The fact that the majority of the votes received agreed with the name
>of 'market' (or whatever) indicates to me that the voters were not
>primarily database professionals, as we are aware of the significance
>of naming something misleading.

I suspect it is because most people don't care. One of the main reasons for the split was the volume of traffic and a god way to reduce that is to get rid of job postings which distract from the technical imformation we are interested in.
>
>You, no doubt, will respond that the readers of, and posters to,
>newsgroups have a responsibility to understand the newsgroup process.

All your other assumptions are dubious and this one is completely wrong.

>I say that is bunk. It shows a total lack of understanding about the
>customer and about fundamental economics.

Economics has nothing to do with it.
>
>The 'centrally controlled and planned' approach went the way of the
>Berlin wall. (I hope you understand the analogy, there.)

I understand the analogy. Its just a crap one. Why is it that planning ahead and being prepared is OK for businesses, but doesn't make sense for governments and non-commercial organisations.

>Unless you
>make the effort to understand and facilitate the customer, then the
>customer will show you his displeasure by leaving your product as soon
>as someone else figures out what the customer truly needs and how to
>best supply it.

So what! No-one is making money from usenet groups so there is no loss.
>
>I would be willing to bet there are dozens, if not hundreds, of unused
>usegroups because of this very same principle. Whether or not you are
>willing to admit it, you are in a competition.
>I cannot say what the
>other medium will be that will replace this one, but it will come.
>You win that competition by understanding the customer, not demanding
>that the customer understand you (or your newsgroup bureaucracy).
>

What really pisses me off are people like you who are quite happy to exploit the facilities without participating.

-- 
Jim Smith