Re: AS/400 and DB2 vs. Unix and Oracle

In message <4dc12i$q0h_at_vanbc.wimsey.com> - gschenk_at_wimsey.com (Gerry Schenk) wr ites:
:>
:>Last week I posted the article "AS/400 vs Unix. It has been very
:>interesting to see the different posts. As indicate in my original post we
:>have been a Unix/Novell shop for the last 5 years, running Oracle 6 and
:>Oracle 7. After reading the posts, I'm not convinced that the AS/400 is
:>any better than Unix. The majority of the posts have concentrated on the
:>hardware side and reliability. From what I can see there is not
:>much of a difference.
:>
:>Having read the arguments, I more curious about the application side.
:>What makes the AS/400 and DB2 more attractive than Unix and Oracle.
:>
:>We are running on Oracle 7.1.6, soon to be 7.2. We have been running in
:>a client server shop with Windows 3.1, using Uniface, Power Builder and
:>Objectview.
:>
:>We are looking for a Inventory Control/Merchandising system, that can
:>support 150 locations running Novell, where the data is batched through a
:>nightly DOS process back to the Head Office. Currently JDA's MMS running
:>on the AS/400 is the favorite.
:>
:>Perhaps someone can answer the following questions.
:>
:>1. Are there more Business applications on the AS/400 than
:>there is on Unix?

25,000, possibly 30,000 applications versus about 10,000 for Sun or AIX.

:>
:>2. Are the costs for these types of applications typically more or less
:>on these types of systems?

My AS/400 application actually costs less than a similiar system for SCO Unix. Quite depends from vendor to vendor and the number of users.

:>
:>3. Any recommendations on either AS/400 applications or Unix
:>applications. For the Unix applications, it would be preferable that
:>they run with Oracle.
:>
:>4. What kinds of Retail locations are running Unix and Oracle. I've
:>heard or read that Starbucks, Walmart and Home Depot are using AS/400s.
:>

That's true. So is Duty Free Shoppers around the world, and the top retail businesses in my area.

:>I look forward to the all the excellent responses.
:>
:>Below is some of my thoughts on why Unix is better. Below that is the
:>original post, which I've included for the benefit of the readers of the
:>Oracle newsgroup, which I've cross posted to.
:>
:>Thanks in advance.
:>
:>regards,
:>
:>->Gerry Schenk
:>->gschenk_at_wimsey.com
:>
:>
:>In support of Unix, this is what I can see.
:>
:>1. It is very progressive. The OS has been around for 20 years and
:>foundations of the Internet are based on Unix. It has a lot of support
:>and is a very open system.

You should see how progressive OS/400 is. How about an object oriented design and architecture, with microkernel. An interface built on hypertext links. 64 bit architecture, data sizes and addressing capability. Single level store, for instance, allows it to suspend threads or processes in operation, shut down the machine, and continue the process later (like a month from now). It now has 70 to 80% of Open Unix calls too.

For protocols it will support SNA/APPC/APPN, TCP/IP, outright; NetBIOS /NetBEUI through LanServer/400 and the FSIOP, and later hopefully with IPX using Netware 4.1.

IBM is now moving various internet software and utilities into the AS/400, like the ability to be a Web server. They also got plans to turn the AS/400 into a Notes server as well.

The bundled Client Access/400 software allows immediete hookup to DOS, Windows, and OS/2 clients, including ODBC support and for OS/2 stations with DB2/2 v2, DRDA and synchronous updates.

AS/400s also mesh well with existing Unix sites. I heard of places that run such mixed environs.

:>
:>2. I can add practically anything to our Sparcs. In our shop, I have
:>used a variety of drives. Drive selection is based on price, availability,
:>speed and cache. I've added modems (Practical Peripherals, USR),
:>printers (HP 3D, 4SIMX, dot matrix), terminals(Wyse 60s), drives
:>(Seagate, Micropolis, Fast Wide - 20MBs), tape drives (DLT, 8MM, 4MM,
:>QIC).
:>
:>3. Software. Ton of software from the Internet. eg. Cern's
:>httpd(has proxy capabilities with caching), Tpage(pager software that
:>allows us to page if a process or machine is down), various editors, ftp
:>utilities(ncftp), gnu tools (grep, gcc, rcs), news software(inn and cnews),
:>mail software (pop2, pop3, pine, elm, sendmail, smail), time sync
:>software(ntp), perl(scripting language), faxing software(hylafax), comm
:>software(uucp, ecu, kermit), compression software(gzip, pkzip, and pkzip
:>compatible unzip and zip). Plus many more.
:>

Unix can't be beat for free software. To ask for free software for the AS/400 is like begging for free parts from your Mercedes Benz or Cartier dealer. Good luck.

:>4. Reliability. Our Sparc IPX with 64M RAM, 7G of disk, 2 SCSI
:>controllers and has been in operation since 1991. In
:>that time we've only had one serious problem and that was caused by the
:>power supply on the external case that we put two drives into. Other
:>than that it has been working reliably. It is running SunOS 4.1.3 and I
:>am inclined not to upgrade it to SunOS 4.1.4 because it works. It has
:>been a little work horse.
:>

I have heard of AS/400s that never went down since they went up in 1989. It's predecessor is even a tougher bitch---there are System 36s that hasn't gone down for more than a decade. The base of such machines are still significant, more than 200,000 of these System 36s, 38s and 34s, and the users just won't give them up.

:> We also have a Sparc 1000 with 320M RAM, 60G of disk, 2 system boards,
:>4 CPUs and 6 SCSI controllers. The problems we've had included two
:>power supplies which gave out. One time the power supply went out at
:>9:00am on a Sunday and Sun had it repaired by 2:00pm the same day.
:>Other problems have been mainly with hard drives that we have added.
:>One of the problems involved a bad batch of drives from the manufacturer
:>and the other involves heat.
:>
:>Our biggest problem has been that we didn't anticipate the amount of data
:>that were going to store. As a result, we have 18 seperate drives, where
:>we should have RAID.
:>
:>The majority of the arguments that I have heard for the AS/400 is that it
:>is a Business box, it is more reliable and that you don't need the
:>same amount of support staff that is required for Unix.
:>

True true. The only thing easier to use in the world is a Macintosh. I personally find the AS/400 easier to set up and use than a *PC*.

:>As for the business part of the box, the AS/400 is certainly being
:>promoted that way. As for reliability, I feel it is just what you put
:>into the box. As for support, it depends on how you want to pay for it.
:>You either have it internally or you pay for it through service
:>contracts. We don't have a large staff. To service the boxes, we
:>basically have 1 sysadmin and 1 dba, and neither of us is 100% system admin.
:>

That's more than enough. He does have to unlearn a lot of things about Unix, since the AS/400 can be a culture shock. You have to understand the system in terms of an object oriented paradigm, like everything in the system are encapsulated objects that you don't hack at. A lot of system implementations are hidden because of the paradigm, and security is extremely tight, with every object given a security tag.

:>
:>***** Start of original post *****************
:>
:> We have been using Unix since 1991, primarily SunOS 4.1.x and Solaris
:>2.x. Obviously our experience base is with Unix and Oracle, not with
:>RPG, DB2 and AS/400s.
:>
:>The intent of this post is not to start a flame war, but rather get some
:>opinions on the strengths and weeknesses of the AS/400 vs. UNIX.
:>
:>I work for a company that has a 150 retail locations. Our primary
:>platform at the store is Novell, with the Head Office system on Sun
:>Sparcs, which includes a Sparc 1000 running Oracle 7.

Novell is a headache.

:>
:>
:>Most of the applications and reports have been developed in house,
:>written primarily in C and Uniface. This includes the Purchase Order
:>System and inventory control.

That's similar to what I have.

:>
:>Recently a new VP of Finance was hired on, who is in charge of the IS
:>group. This new individual is very much against development and much
:>prefers "canned" packages. As such all development has pretty much
:>stopped. He is also familiar with IBM's AS/400 and wants to replace the
:>existing system with a AS/400 package. His complaint about the current
:>system is that it lacks proper inventory control. This is something that
:>we were working towards, but the project was cancelled.

Inventory Control is the AS/400's hidden name. Lots and lots of packages out there, some very specific to the type of retail operation you have (drug store, jewelry store, video rental,)

:>
:>We've had discussions about this and he is convinced that the AS/400 is
:>more popular, that packages on the AS/400 are less expensive and more
:>readily available. He claims that he cannot find a reasonably priced
:>Inventory Control UNIX based package.
:>

AS/400 software can be cheaper because they are not as a big as a headache compared to Unix packages in terms of support and maintenance. Just my opinion.

:>I have very little exposure with an AS/400. What are the pros and cons
:>of the AS/400 vs. UNIX. I'd appreciate any feedback.
:>

Email me, if you wish to know more.    

:>Thanks in advance.
:>
:>->Gerry Schenk
:>->gschenk_at_wimsey.com
:>
:>

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