Re: What is an Oracle "User"

Thanks for the below. Let me be a bit more precise about the configuration to see if it makes more sense.

We will have large system (probably VMS cluster) in Oklahoma City which will contain the main corporate database info everyone shares (frequently updated including a lot of not-replicated data).

We will have 18 sites around the country connected by various speed WAN circuits each with an average of about 20-25 users each on a PC client. At each of these 18 sites, we will have a separate small server with an Oracle database and replications of the more stable, frequently accessed data from the system in Oklahoma City. But not nearly all of it, and in general not the info being updated, just reference data to improve performance. May database will be somewhere in the 50-100GB range and local servers a couple hundred megabytes each.

This means that each user will attach to these local, small databases and also to the remote, central database. Two separate attaches to two separate Oracle databases on two separate servers. While there is a 5-6 hour time zone spread, there are some hours when all users may be on-line at once. Also, we have no intention of going to the trouble to feed all these users through one funnel for licensing reasons even if we could (too many applications, too hard to do generally and maintainably). So basically we have 400 users x two attaches at least some of the time.

Sooo.... Oracle says we can treat each of these as 1 user, and their pricing is based almost entirely on user count. They say these 400 people are 400 users and that's that, not 800 because they attach to two databases. And that the additional 18 servers are no serious additional cost ("a few hundred dollars each"). In other words they say they don't really care whether these 400 users use 1 database, or 20, the cost is basically the same.

Now if this were Sybase, I would have to have an unlimited license on this central server, and (average) 20 user licenses on each local server, even though as users each human being would be counted twice. Sybase would also stick us for a 'per server" fee in addition to user count; a double whammy. So many other companies feel the same way I am overjoyed if Oracle does not, but skeptical.  

Is there, perhaps, an Oracle standard terms and conditions document, or definitions document available on the net that might give the party line, and see how it compares to our sales person's explanations?

-- 
Linwood Ferguson                 e-mail: ferguson_at_uvii.mag.aramark.com
Mgr. Software Engineering        Voice:  (US) 540/967-0087
ARAMARK Mag & Book Services      


In article <42ldt4$g6v_at_tabloid.amoco.com>, bgmccracken_at_amoco.com says...


>

>Ferguson_at_uvii.mag.aramark.com (Linwood Ferguson) wrote:


>

>>Having been burned by several other vendors, I would like confirmation from 

>>some actual users.

 


>>We are considering Oracle in an environment where we will have one "main" 


>>database, and a bunch of local databases with frequently used data.  Each of 

>>about 400 users will attach to both a local Oracle database and over a WAN 

 to 


>>the central database.

 


>>Oracle sales is telling us that counts as 400 users, and a 400 user license 


 is 


>>all we need (plus some nominal, like few hundred dollar each, cost for a 


>>server on each processor).

 


>>That is so enlightened of a definition of a "user" that the cynic in me 


 thinks 


>>the salesman is mistaken, and when we get to doing it we will find we have 


 800 


>>users by their counts.

 


>>Anyone know for sure how this works?  Either legally, or from any 


 enforcement 


>>techniques they use (about which I know nothing as yet).


 


>>Thanks in advance.  Thanks double for an e-mail copy of any response in case 


 I 


>>miss it in the rather high volume here.

 


>>-- 

>>Linwood Ferguson                 e-mail: ferguson_at_uvii.mag.aramark.com


>>Mgr. Software Engineering        Voice:  (US) 540/967-0087

>>ARAMARK Mag & Book Services      

>

>I think you could very well argue the point of what is a "user", does

>it mean a "seat" liscense or concurrent users?

>

>You will have to purchase a seat copy for every user wanted to connect

>via TCP (or IPX) for their Sql*Net.  Then the database itself when we

>bought it was concurrent users...

>

>so in theory, if your 200+ users are only online x percentage, that

>may equate to x users at any given time, or you could piss off Oracle

>and buy 1 seat user seat, and write a front-end to the database to

>shove all the transactions through it!!

>

>Didn't understand your definition of "local".  Does that mean 

>Local in site or local as in desktop?  Either case, with this

>description, aren't you going to have to buy a bunch of 

>"local" databases too?  If your LAN speed is good, stick

>with the big bang server, and buy one headache rather

>than a bunch of little ones all over the country (or city).

>Your costs will stay down over the long haul...

>

>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 ---


>-------------

>Equation of efficiency:

>(VERY HEAVY PAIN KILLERS x ((# of users x # Oracle 


>databases) x (# of minutes

>on hold with Oracle x # of poor-English speaking Oracle

>support techs) x # of CSI numbers to remember) x number

>of times to get a decent install script from Oracle x number

>of long-distance charges x being left on hold)

>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 ---


>-------------


>

>But your Squeeeeeeeeelnet (sql*net) will need to be by user, since

>they might want to use a report write (like InfoMaker) or some other

>reporting s/w.  Good luck...

>