Re: SQL server Vs Oracle

David <desertfox_at_thegrid.net> wrote in message news:wYj%2.1763$i4.101605_at_alfalfa.thegrid.net...

> Why don't you do yourself a favor and take a marketing class.

You mean a marketing class that teaches me the science of creating LONG TERM demand for a product? Or the 30 second TV "marketing" MS specializes in?

> survivability of a company and/or its product. You can have a wonderful
> product but if you don't market it correctly it won't sell.

Preaching to the converted. Except I don't call what MS does marketing, just PR and advertising. Real marketing is not that. What they do, 50 years ago would have earned them the tar and feathers treatment... Unfortunately,
our society has lost some of its shields against this sort of thing.

> around the web and you will notice that a large number of sites are now ASP
> sites (.asp extensions).

We must be surfing in different directions... Still, good point. I like the asp
ease of use, although I don't intend to use it in the near future. I have enough
use of current products that I don't need one that gets me up and running in 5 minutes. Mainly because I intend to stay up and running for the next many years...
But for someone just starting, yes it is a good combination and ORACLE and other competitors better shape up instead of playing the "let's invent the paradigm of the week to divert MS's attention" game...

> American so please don't flame me thinking I am a Frenchman.. God knows
> there is nothing worse than being labeled a Frenchman. <G> )

Yikes! I'll stay out of this one... Hate those French exocets ;-)

> Would you please provide the sources of these MS claims. I have never seen
> any such claims.

The local MS Comunique magazine, when the announcement of SQL Server V7 came out. BTW, they said the same about V6, V5, V4, etc,etc,etc. Also the local newspapers and computer mags on the same ocasions. Yaaawwn....

> It sounds like you are getting a little desperate in your
> goal of bashing the Microsoft Juggernaut.

Yeah, right. I can't stop shaking in my despair. :-) Bashing a juggernaut? Yeah, sure! <Sigh>

> Other than being a hardcore user AND a hardcore web developer of both, then
> no, I don't have much experience with them... LOL.
>

Keep laughing buddy. Try to learn a little more about how to manage and administer both of them in mixed environments. BTW, try to tune your NT server box to perform nicely as a web server, database server and workstation server. Be prepared to "add LOTS of memory"...... Or buy lots of licenses and additional machines to spread the load.

Could be done with one single UNIX box and quite easily, did you know that? For a lot less money! But you would have to actually use the keyboard, instead of
"looking busy" with the mouse...

> >> rats ass if Word takes up 100 megs of hard drive space when 18 Gig drives
> >> are becoming standard? Or who cares if Word takes more memory when most
> >The IT manager who has to pay for the upgrade of thousands of PC's gives a
> >rats ass and cares, THAT IS WHO! Particularly when he's just been through
> >one of those 2 years ago from W3.1 to W95!
> And the upgrade from 3.1 to 95 was a tremendous upgrade! That upgrade to 95
> has surely lasted more than 2 years. 95 is so usable a large majority still
> uses it.

No it hasn't. It happened two years ago, not "more than 2 years ago", for most big
corporates. In many cases even less than that. Read again the above, YOU ARE the
one saying "who gives a rats ass" to these people, NOT ME!

>
> >The market is not only made of startups who can afford the latest.
> >In fact, those are a very small percentage...
> So as a startup, what are my options.?

As I said, buy whatever is the latest. That is not the problem. The problem is that very soon it won't be the latest. And you'll be giving a "rats ass".

> Besides, you get to write off the depreciation! You really do need to look
into taking a
> business class... maybe you will come away with an understanding of why
> buying newer computers is really not such a bad idea.

Wrong, buddy. You are the one that needs to take a business class, particularly in international business laws. Depreciating a computer is not subject
to the same laws everywhere! What works nicely for your closed environment in your
cosy country is a disaster under the laws of many other countries. And your fantastic MS "market" needs the outside world to keep expanding and needs to learn
this. Joe 6pack is not the only sucker out there and has a limited pocket... MS needs the outside world to grow more. So does "the growing market" you keep refering to. Ignore the restrictions of this outside world and you'll be forever
announcing "brilliant" stuff that nobody cares about. Except the startups...

>
> Once again, you fail to understand the changing industry. People are
> upgrading less and less as time goes on. Believe it or not, but computers
> ARE getting to the point where it really ISN'T necessary to upgrade every 6
> months.

Beg your pardon? You've just been saying all along that upgrade is good, we should all upgrade, yadda yadda, and NOW you don't need to? Well, I'll tell you something: like it or not you WILL HAVE to! And then we'll see how much you like that...

>>EVERY SINGLE ONE of those 5 years. Last time I did this, I found out that
>>none of those illuminati were left in the industry: they all had left.
>>Talk about long term, eh?...
> Once again, 5 years is forever in Silicon Valley. It's like saying "Come
> back in 100 years, and EVERY SINGLE ONE of your cars will be gone."

Really? So you will be out of business in 5 years? Excellent!!!! I'll still be here. Like I've been for the last 11 years. Now, where is that "knowledge of business"? Where is the "partnering with the right company" that will "be there to support you in the future"? Where is your argumentation of how good it is to be supported by MS in the "long run"?????

Dear me! SNAG!!!!! <G>

> >NT and SQL Server IS the silver bullet, all you gotta do to scale it is ADD
> >memory!
> You are having a conversation with me. Who are these MS supporters you keep
> talking about? Are you have a parallel conversation with a whole group of
> people?

Yes, I am. Judging by the constant change of e-mail addresses in the replies I've been getting. Or are you one of those that hides behind multiple personas on the Net? If you haven't been following the various parallel discussions that this
theme has generated and the multiple times the "Add more memory" argument has been invoked by people defending NT, then I suggest you pop into deja and have a gander at the thread...

> >What a SAD JOKE...
> Hahaha.. oh.. what were we laughing about again?

The "add more memory" as the panacea for all NT/SQL Server tuning and performance limitations. Thought it was clear? Oh dear, maybe not. Let's see: why don't you add more memory? ;-)

> Firstly, this practice of beating your competitor by any means necessary is
> promoted in our society and is often referred to as Capitalism. BTW, how did
> they 'create' a demand for their browser? Last time I checked, people liked
> choice, and the emergence of the Internet coincided with this new choice.

No it didn't. The Internet has emerged a long time ago, in case you haven't been around for the last 20 years. The practice of creating a market for a Net product
by giving it away is the new thing. And of course people like choice: Particularly
when one of the sides says "it's free, boys and girls". Oldest trick in the bag.
Wait for the bill to come through....

> Seems like Microsoft once again knew what the public wanted and filled this
> need with another choice.

Lemmesee: they KNEW that the public liked FREE software? Geee, must have been a true GENIUS, the person that figured that one at MS!......

>
> Let me give you a little education as to why Microsoft is currently being
> harrassed by the Justice Department for so-called 'monopolistic' practices.
> Do you know how much Bill Gates gave to the Democratic party during the
> elections? NOTHING. In good spirit, the democractic government is now going
> after Microsoft and Bill with a vengence. Unfortunately Joe-6 pack doesn't
> understand this.

I dunno about the internal dirties of the US politics. That is for someone else watching this and who lives there to counter if it needs to be.

> The fact that Microsoft wasn't even in the business of making browsers until
> late in the game and now leads that market says a lot for Microsoft.
>

Really? Well to me it says nothing. They flog something for free. People OF COURSE take it. What does that say a lot of? Let them charge for it what it costs them to develop and produce, BEFORE all the other competitors are gone. Then we'll see how much market they grab. But we know that the DoJ farce will make sure that only happens when it's too late, don't we?

>
> Ein Volk, Ein Microsoft, Ein Bill
>

He-haw! Ya, herr David! ;-)

--
Cheers
Nuno Souto
nsouto_at_nsw.bigpond.net.au
http://www.acay.com.au/~nsouto/welcome.htm Received on Sun May 16 1999 - 08:35:12 CDT