Re: Chubb Institute for Training

customer_at_asgardfinancial.com (mark davis) wrote in message news:<e0366c3c.0311032154.3232e7f6_at_posting.google.com>...
> Daniel Morgan <damorgan_at_x.washington.edu> wrote in message news:<1067885687.540557_at_yasure>...
> > Ryan Gaffuri wrote:
> >
> > >customer_at_asgardfinancial.com (mark davis) wrote in message news:<e0366c3c.0311011823.219b47a2_at_posting.google.com>...
> > >
> > >
> > >>rgaffuri_at_cox.net (Ryan Gaffuri) wrote in message news:<1efdad5b.0310060847.4987aab_at_posting.google.com>...
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>odba1961_at_aol.com (Odba1961) wrote in message news:<20031003121734.09867.00000186_at_mb-m25.aol.com>...
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>I attend Chubb's DBA program. Chubb never told me I would be a junior DBA.That being said I have taken from Chubb a database system design course
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>that was excellent. Last term I took the first course in the oracle
> > >>series-Oracle 9i Sql. This course was intense 5 people were in the
> > >>class 2 people passed.I gave up a lot of weekends to pass that course
> > >>with an A.The course involved a lot of hands on execises using the
> > >>books from Oracle University. I also had to do a case study which
> > >>involved taking a business problem and mapping it to an ERD then
> > >>creating the tables with the proper constraints and populating the
> > >>tables. I then had to write several sequel quries to make sure I had
> > >>created the table properly.The next thing was to produce a report from
> > >>SQL*Plus that had to mimic the print out requirements..I was taught by
> > >>an OCP9i professional who is in the business.
> > >>
> > >>I am taking Fundemental I and Fundementals II and Tuning. This
> > >>material is not easy and is being taught to us by a Oracle Certified
> > >>Master.My understanding is that there are not that many Masters in the
> > >>country. To sum this up Chubb is a good school to go to for Oracle
> > >>training,they don't hold your hand. You have to work at it. I have a
> > >>degree in CIS(learn much more at chubb technology wise),limited
> > >>technical experience and hoping this will help. So far Chubb has not
> > >>disappointed me. It hard for me to believe that some other school
> > >>would be better. We use Oracle University books and and a lot of
> > >>hands-on in class. The class is small (4 people) and very personable.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >another thing to point out. Its hard to believe how cheap your courses
> > >are. $650 for 10 weeks? Most private companies charge $2000-3000 for
> > >lousy entry level courses. Oracle charges $500/day(and their stuff is
> > >not always that good).
> > >
> > >find someone to teach it out in northern virginia and Ill take it.
> > >Dont think you will get any takers. The schools out here charge
> > >several times that for their entry level stuff.
> > >
> > >
> > Only place I might be able to swing it would be at UVA in
> > Charlottesville. I get in there several
> > times a year. Is that close enough?
> >
> > --
> > Daniel Morgan
> > http://www.outreach.washington.edu/ext/certificates/oad/oad_crs.asp
> > http://www.outreach.washington.edu/ext/certificates/aoa/aoa_crs.asp
> > damorgan_at_x.washington.edu
> > (replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)
> >
> >
> > --
> Number One I never quoted the cost of the program
>
> As far as what Ryan is saying you seem to think Chubb is 'stealing' my
> money.They didnt sure, I realize when I first went to the campus and
> interviewd I was given a 'sales pitch' all schools including
> Universities give a sales pitch. I took the materials given to me and
> check 4 other schools including major university. They all offer the
> same courses. I also asked each and everyone of them about experience
> level bfore taking the Oracle courses,they all stated take the courses
> and become certified. They all stated it would be difficult in todays
> economy to find entry level dba work but it could and has been done. I
> selected Chubb because of location and scheduling.Tonite I spoke with
> the instructor who is an OCM about what you stated. He advise me to
> continue with forms and get training on Unix. However, he strongly
> advised me to get certified.
>

Let me reiterate this. Its not hard to find an entry level DBA job. The position doesnt exist. There are no entry level Vice President jobs either.
This 'OCM'. Are you sure he is actually an OCM? ORacle used to give out certificates for just taking courses.... The OCM test is supposed to be pretty tough, so lets see...

Second off what would an OCM know about the entry level market? He is FAR removed from it.

Forms wont help either. Oracle is pushing all their development money into Jdeveloper. Forms jobs are low paying and not that many around, plus you need EXPERIENCE. There are NO entry level jobs.

His responses to you are similiar to what you get when you go to a fortune teller. Look at how vague his responses are. 'It can and has been done'. Wonderful response. Real detailed there. Well one guy jumped off Niagara falls and lived, so technically 'It can and has been done'. Demand to get information on how former graduates are doing in the job market and talk to them. Im telling you its a scam.

Certified helps IF you have experience. I said 'helps'. These guys are snake oil salesmen selling you a product that doesnt work. Are you going to buy a rain making machine next?

> Oracle states this on their website- The Oracle Certification Program
> begins with the Associate level. At this apprentice skill level,
> Oracle Associates have a foundation knowledge that will allow them to
> act as a junior team member working with database administrators or
> application developers. It sems to me that You dont have to have a lot
> of experience at this level or is ORACLE just not telling the truth.

Oracle.com is a marketing website. That stuff is BS. asktom.oracle.com, which has oracle's best known DBA. He is not certified. There are NO junior jobs. Second off, JUNIOR != Entry Level. Junior means one of two things 1-2 years experience AND a Top Secret Security Clearance or 5+ years experience and willing to work for entry level wages. Thats what it means these days.
>
> It's hard to believe that 5 schools in this area including a community
> college would bring in students into it's DBA program and just take
> their money. It would seem on the face of it to invite a class action
> lawsuit.There are entry
> level opportunities out there it may be more difficult now to find
> them but they do exist. It takes more then posting your resume 0nline
> or with recruiters it takes work(phone
> calls,networking,followup,persistence).

Believe it. Happens all the time. After you finish with these worthless classes and you dont even land an interview, then we will see. You dont have a lawsuit case against them. Most of the students are lousy and dont work that hard. Second off, look at what they tell, we dont 'guarantee' a job but it 'can and has been done'. They leave it vage enough where you cant touch them.

Why dont you test it? Send out yoru resume under a different name with only an email address to respond on. Put it on the web state, that you are an OCP and are entry level. See the responses you get. All you will get are eithe recruiters calling you who dont read your resume or recrutiers calling you to see if you know anyone else.

>
> These are the things that will get me the opportunity. I wish you
> would stop slamming Chubb since you never attended a class,I have been
> to a 4 year school set in an auditorium of 200 students and those
> professors never gave a damn about me. At least at Chubb with a class
> size of 4 students they have answered evry question I have asked and
> challenged me to do my best.

You have an information systems degree right? Damn did you pick a bad choice for degrees. I have little respect for that. They are SO easy. You should have doen computer science. However, most of the kids with Computer Science degrees arent breaking into IT. Now the kids coming out of Harvard or MIT can land jobs, but the kids out of state schools are barely getting interviews. They are far more qualified than you.

>
> If you are reading this Mr Morgan would you be so kind as to advised
> me on what developers book using forms I could read and on pl/sql
> none of the schools here offer courses as indepth as yours :) secondly
> should I be reading the online documentation at Tahiti? If so which
> ones. thanks in advance

start with the 'concepts' document on OTN and the SQL reference. If your OCM didnt tell you that, then he isnt much of a teacher. Chubb are losers. So are all the other schools teaching 'entry level' oracle skills. I could teach those classes easily, but I dont want to steal people's money.
>
> In this world it so easy to be negative,if what you say is true Ryan
> then it is a SAD world we live in. However, I belive there are
> companies out there who will train you at an entry level position just
> gotta find 'em

your a fool mark. No offense. This negative stuff. Chubb are use car salesmen. If I get a bad sales pitch for a car salesman, I dont go back. Just send out your resume, state you are an OCP and entry level and SEE WHAT HAPPENS, before you spend any more money. It cant hurt?
>
> Mark Davis
Received on Tue Nov 04 2003 - 06:52:29 CST