Re: Database comparison

Two words: correlated sub-queries

Sometimes it's more important what a product CANNOT do.

DougD

On Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 6:08 AM Howard Latham <howard.latham_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> This magic snowflake thing sounds great. Where do I get a demo ?
>
> On Sun, 18 Apr 2021, 13:43 Mark W. Farnham, <mwf_at_rsiz.com> wrote:
>
>> Mladen was uncharacteristically mild in this thread. He did not even
>> mention my favorite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs (NOT
>> SAFE FOR WORK!)
>>
>>
>>
>> But seriously, evaluation of RDBMS and non-R DBMS systems is extremely
>> prone to cherry picking and niche case analysis.
>>
>>
>>
>> In 1985 the genius who wrote the error routines for the LEM guessed
>> correctly that Oracle would be successful and the most portable. I’ve
>> primarily used Oracle ever since.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would claim that the appropriate test for any proposed datastore
>> building built to serve some application function is to compare 1) Oracle
>> configured as well as it can be at a reasonable configuration cost for that
>> purpose, 2) Some other product that claims to be best of breed for that
>> application function, 3) something like MySql to see if “free” is good
>> enough.
>>
>>
>>
>> Then, if Oracle is NOT the winner but is the only current DBMS in the
>> company culture, factor in the cost of adding support for a new DBMS. In
>> that cost factor calculation give “SQL” databases a slight edge over
>> non-“SQL” databases in case you outgrow them, because the transition to
>> Oracle is easier than going from, say, key-value store databases.
>>
>>
>>
>> Good luck. Not even a company like Forrester really gets this right
>> across the board consistently.
>>
>>
>>
>> mwf
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org [mailto:
>> oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org] *On Behalf Of *Pap
>> *Sent:* Sunday, April 18, 2021 6:53 AM
>> *To:* gogala.mladen_at_gmail.com
>> *Cc:* oracle-l_at_freelists.org
>> *Subject:* Re: Database comparison
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you mladen.
>>
>>
>>
>> My apology. Actually I have zero experience on snowflake but came across
>> that blog so thought of checking around that.with the experts if some have
>> experience around that or similar stuff. I have only worked in Oracle
>> databases throughout my career, so no handson around other database
>> technologies.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you for the details. I was not aware about TPC-H benchmark before
>> but as i went through it seems a common standard measurement for DB
>> performances and as you rightly pointed out it has zero information around
>> snowflake which makes it questionable.
>>
>>
>>
>> And out of curiosity , We are coming across multiple database
>> technologies, So I was also trying to search for a common place which could
>> provide us information around different database technologies and
>> their best use cases or what they are best suited for. Is there any such?
>> Or TPC-H is the right place to see basic comparisons?
>>
>>
>>
>> And yes i agree that Oracle has 30 years of its invention fed into that
>> product so it must not be that easy for anybody to make it within a short
>> time. But few things I do see, that when we try to scale it at some point
>> just adding additional storage cells is not helping much.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Pap
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 18, 2021 at 9:08 AM Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen_at_gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Pap, do you work for Snowflake? From your discussions I know you to be a
>> competent Oracle DBA and yet, you bring up a crappy propaganda like
>> this? You haven't even mentioned TPC-H and its results:
>>
>> http://tpc.org/tpch/
>>
>> No Snowflake in TPC-H 3.0 despite the database itself mentioning the
>> schema:
>>
>> https://docs.snowflake.com/en/user-guide/sample-data-tpch.html
>>
>> So there is that magical database which doesn't need indexes,
>> administration, compression and is scalable up to effing infinity but
>> they don't do TPC-H? And you bring up for discussion something that is
>> obviously a Snowflake sales pitch, full of half truths and downright
>> lies. What's the motive behind that? Do you work for Snowflake? Are you
>> on commission? Snowflake is being sold as a magical solution for all
>> things data warehouse, but they haven't bother to produce even a single
>> benchmark that would help me rate them. They are selling very
>> aggressively and this is not the first time I hear about them. Even
>> Oracle is playing nice with them and has created GG adapter for Snowflake:
>>
>>
>> https://www.snowflake.com/blog/continuous-data-replication-into-snowflake-with-oracle-goldengate/
>>
>> Yet virtually nothing about this database is known. There is no free
>> stuff that can help you learn it. No explanation for the outrageous
>> claims ("no indexes"). As of now, I regard Snowflake as MIPS ("Marketing
>> Invention for Pushing Sales"). And yet you bring up such a low quality
>> laughable "comparison" despite being a competent Oracle DBA. Why is that?
>>
>> If you want a huge cloud based DW database, try Microsoft Data Lake. I
>> have some good experiences with that. That is a real DB, SQL Server on
>> steroids, and it needs a DBA, indexes and the whole nine yards. It is
>> based on proven and rock solid SQL Server data warehouse reputation. For
>> now, Snowflake looks more like a data whorehouse product.
>>
>> On 4/17/21 2:36 AM, Pap wrote:
>> > I understand this list group is mainly expert around
>> > oracle databases, but assuming that some must have explored other
>> > databases options or get a chance to work on other databases, are
>> > these points all true and Snowflake is currently the best
>> > warehouse/analytics database in the market now or any other databases
>> > are there proven record?
>> >
>> > https://www.analytics.today/blog/oracle-vs-snowflake
>> > <https://www.analytics.today/blog/oracle-vs-snowflake>
>>
>> --
>> Mladen Gogala
>> Database Consultant
>> Tel: (347) 321-1217
>> https://dbwhisperer.wordpress.com
>>
>> --
>> http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
>>
>>

--
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