Re: EM access to developers
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 19:16:56 -0500
Message-ID: <CAAaXtLCwW57H0o7rqWzKVmmv8bwOhrPdnqRacJG=E8hmMESLVA_at_mail.gmail.com>
Don't confuse "knowledge" and "data", though.
OEM supplies a huge amount of "data", but "knowledge" only comes when you *understand* what it means.
I have no problem sharing the data with those who are able to understand it, or those who are willing to learn. I have no desire to grant OEM access to somebody who is likely to page me at 3AM reporting a Severity-One incident whose description is: "There is too much green in the OEM performance graph".
And yes, this *has* happened.
My reluctance to share OEM extends as much to managers as it does to developers. Perhaps more, actually. Its a great tool for those who understand what it does and what it tells you. But it can be dangerous in the hands of anybody else, even with "read-only" access.
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Stojan Veselinovski < stojan.veselinovski_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> If they ask for it they'll get a read only account. Most aren't even
> aware it exists and when they see it they always ask if they can have
> access.
>
> I see no reason why we shouldn't give this access and more knowledge for
> everyone is better overall.
>
> Stojan
> www.stojanveselinovski.com/blog
> www.stojanveselinovski.com
>
> On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Mladen Gogala <
> dmarc-noreply_at_freelists.org> wrote:
>
>> Iggy, in my opinion, that's a bit unrealistic. Developers have in depth
>> knowledge of their tools and related business knowledge. Making them
>> responsible for all aspects of performance would mean to put too much
>> weight on their backs. Besides, what would DBA do in such a scheme of
>> things? Let's face it, DBA is the natural predator of developers, needed
>> for the balance and harmony in the ecosystem.
>>
>>
>> On 01/30/2015 06:23 PM, Iggy Fernandez wrote:
>>
>> I'm in favor of separation of duties and specialization but, in my book,
>> the application developers who developed the application are responsible
>> for all aspects of application performance not the database administrators
>> and therefore I want to give developers complete and unfettered access to
>> performance information. That includes Statspack, AWR, ASH, 10053 traces,
>> 10046 traces, and real-time information. The current crop of tools don't
>> support this very well and, in my book, that's a design defect.
>>
>> Iggy
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 23:07:53 +0000
>> From: dmarc-noreply_at_freelists.org
>> To: ian_at_slac.stanford.edu; oracle-l_at_freelists.org
>> Subject: Re: EM access to developers
>>
>> Are we strictly talking about non-database developers here?
>>
>> As a database developer, I get a lot of my projects by watching the
>> performance pages in OEM and finding queries that are either slow, or are
>> being slowed due to concurrency conflicts. You might say OEM gives me a
>> large portion of my projects. Granted, I could get them straight from the
>> database in the tables OEM uses, but OEM is a much quicker method when
>> you're exploring recent history.
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* "MacGregor, Ian A." <ian_at_slac.stanford.edu>
>> <ian_at_slac.stanford.edu>
>> *To:* "oracle-l_at_freelists.org" <oracle-l_at_freelists.org>
>> <oracle-l_at_freelists.org> <oracle-l_at_freelists.org>
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 30, 2015 3:01 PM
>> *Subject:* RE: EM access to developers
>>
>> Both SQL*Developer and OEM provide capabilities which are useful to
>> DBA's and developers. In OEM you can control access to a target, and
>> ensure that access is read only, but you really cannot control which
>> panels a user sees. Much of what is presented is of little value to the
>> developer.
>>
>> What developers want from OEM is to be able to view the overall health of
>> the system, and whether any malaise is being caused by what they support.
>> OEM comes closer to providing this than SQL Developer but is not there
>> yet. It's been a few years since I looked at the SQL Developer
>> capabilities in this area it seemed that it required giving a way the keys
>> of the kingdom.
>>
>> Another problem with granting OEM access to developers is the load it
>> may place on the OMS.
>>
>> Ian MacGregor
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org [mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org]
>> On Behalf Of Mladen Gogala
>> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2015 1:53 PM
>> To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org
>> Subject: Re: EM access to developers
>>
>> Hi Pete,
>> I beg to differ. EM is a DB management tool and I cannot fathom what
>> would developers do with it? SQL plans are available from SQL Developer.
>> Developers should use development tools, DBA should use management tools.
>> It's not us and them, it's a division of labor. I doubt that developers
>> would be interested in how long did the backup run or how many log switches
>> are generated during the peek time business hours. So, it's us using EM and
>> them using SQL Developer and Eclipse. That's just the natural order of
>> things.
>>
>> On 01/30/2015 02:28 PM, Peter Sharman wrote:
>>
>>
>> Quick answer: Not enough. J
>>
>>
>>
>> As Courtney mentioned, a lot more is possible more easily with EM12c
>> than in previous releases. We really should be getting away from the “us
>> versus them” mentality we’ve had for way too long between DBA’s and
>> developers. As DBA’s, give the developers access so they can do their job
>> properly but in a secured manner. As developers, use the tools that have
>> been provided to understand and resolve your issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> Easy, right? ;)
>>
>>
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> Oracle logo
>>
>> Pete Sharman
>> Database Architect, DBaaS
>> Enterprise Manager Product Suite
>> 33 Benson Crescent CALWELL ACT 2905 AUSTRALIA
>>
>> Phone: +61262924095 <tel:+61262924095> | | Fax: +61262925183 <fax:
>> +61262925183> | | Mobile: +61414443449
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>> "Controlling developers is like herding cats."
>>
>> Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
>>
>>
>>
>> "Oh no, it's not, it's much harder than that!"
>>
>> Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: kyle Hailey [mailto:kylelf_at_gmail.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 4:15 AM
>> To: ORACLE-L
>> Subject: EM access to developers
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Quick poll : how many folks give developers logins to EM?
>>
>> Last I was talking to people about 4 years ago no one was doing that.
>> Have times changed?
>>
>> I know EM Express looks perfect for developers but I'm asking about
>> access to regular EM.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Kyle Hailey
>>
>> http://kylehailey.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mladen Gogala
>> Oracle DBA
>> http://mgogala.freehostia.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mladen Gogala
>> Oracle DBAhttp://mgogala.freehostia.com
>>
>>
>
-- http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-lReceived on Sat Jan 31 2015 - 01:16:56 CET