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RE: hanging shutdowns

From: Powell, Mark D <>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:57:59 -0500
Message-ID: <>

Well as I noted the cold backup does provide the single set of data files necessary to restore a working point in time database. The legal department requirement may for your firm be a valid business requirement. So long as the decision is not based on a misunderstanding of the technology then I think the decision has to be accepted. Though revisiting the decision on a regular basis to see if it is still valid in light of technology advances would likely be wise.

Without access to the full details of what the database is used for and all the business requirements it is not possible to provide a solution to the issue.

But as far as how to minimize the chance of a hang during the shutdown I think viable options have been provided.

-----Original Message-----
From: Robyn [] Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:37 AM To: Powell, Mark D
Cc: Oracle-L_at_Freelists
Subject: Re: hanging shutdowns


Again, I agree with you. However I have heard the reasoning behind legals requirement and it's not as off the wall as it sounds. Certain tapes are sent off site and retained in the event of legal challenges, particularly in the area of intellectual property challenges. They want to be able to restore the system from one backup set, no changes, no rolling the databases forward. I believe the goal is to minimize technology-related arguments in a court case.

And I believe that certain recent events are going to have us reevaluating these requirements in the near future, which is why I'm choosing not to take this on right now.

Besides, I've already beaten my head against this wall a few too many times.

thank you ... Robyn

On 2/28/06, Powell, Mark D <> wrote:
> >> None of us doubt that the hot backups are adequate for recovery. <<
> From multiple personal experiences with a live production system
> manual hot backups work! I have never had to recover a live
> production database using rman. That I have only done in practice,
> but I believe Oracle and others that the tool does in fact work.
> There is nothing wrong with cold backups. A cold backup provides a
> consistent point in time recovery from which a forward recovery can be

> done, but unlike with a hot backup does not have to be done. This
> makes cold backups (or a copy) excellent for sending offsite to a
> disaster recovery site. No archive logs have to be sent with it. But

> cold backups require a window. When the database is large enough that

> just copying all the files takes several hours the time usually does
> not exist to perform a cold backup. So hot backups were made
> available to eliminate the need to stop the database while the backup
is made.
> I think someone needs to question the reasoning behind legal's
> HTH -- Mark D Powell --
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [] On Behalf Of Robyn
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 9:58 AM
> To:
> Cc: Oracle-L_at_Freelists
> Subject: Re: hanging shutdowns
> Micheal,
> I understand your position and when I arrived here, I made all the
> same arguments. I've been told that our legal department insists on a

> cold backup, and the requirement is non-negotiable. We run full test
> recoveries on all our major systems on a regular basis and we use the
> hot backups to do so. None of us doubt that the hot backups are
> adequate for recovery.
> So I guess we're not really 24x7, we're 24x7-15 and that 15 minutes is

> a sacred cow that I need to leave alone right now ...
> Thanks for the input and if I was calling the shots, I wouldn't do it

> this way. However, I would still need a script that would shut the
> database down quickly, possibly for maintenance or hardware issues, so

> I really appreciate the suggestions provided on this thread.
> Robyn
> On 2/27/06, Michael Haddon <> wrote:
> > I definitely agree, the shutdown is not the problem, it is doing
> > what
> > it is supposed to do in order to maintain data integrity and
> > preserve transactions. The real questions is 'why do you shutdown at

> > all??', I haven't been forced to perform a cold backup on a schedule

> > in years. I
> > thought 7X24 really meant 7X24. If the production environment can
> > deal
> > with the downtime necessary to perform cold backups, then couldn't
> > that time be used to perform batch transactions or some other
> necessary task.
> >
> > I would recommend spending some time on hot backups and showing
> > your boss that the software is a little smarter these days and a
> > complete, point in time/ or some other time recovery is easy. Take a

> > few days/weeks and show him that you can give him an exact copy of
> > his production system anytime he wants it. Make him comfortable and
> > your cold backups will be a thing of the past, otherwise, get
another boss!
> >
> > Just my .02
> >
> > Mike
> >
> --
> --

Robyn Anderson Sands
Received on Tue Feb 28 2006 - 09:57:59 CST

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