Re: hanging shutdowns

Mark,

Again, I agree with you. However I have heard the reasoning behind legals requirement and it's not as off the wall as it sounds. Certain tapes are sent off site and retained in the event of legal challenges, particularly in the area of intellectual property challenges. They want to be able to restore the system from one backup set, no changes, no rolling the databases forward. I believe the goal is to minimize technology-related arguments in a court case.

And I believe that certain recent events are going to have us reevaluating these requirements in the near future, which is why I'm choosing not to take this on right now.

Besides, I've already beaten my head against this wall a few too many times.

thank you ... Robyn

On 2/28/06, Powell, Mark D <mark.powell_at_eds.com> wrote:
> >> None of us doubt that the hot backups are adequate for recovery. <<
>
> From multiple personal experiences with a live production system manual
> hot backups work! I have never had to recover a live production
> database using rman. That I have only done in practice, but I believe
> Oracle and others that the tool does in fact work.
>
> There is nothing wrong with cold backups. A cold backup provides a
> consistent point in time recovery from which a forward recovery can be
> done, but unlike with a hot backup does not have to be done. This makes
> cold backups (or a copy) excellent for sending offsite to a disaster
> recovery site. No archive logs have to be sent with it. But cold
> backups require a window. When the database is large enough that just
> copying all the files takes several hours the time usually does not
> exist to perform a cold backup. So hot backups were made available to
> eliminate the need to stop the database while the backup is made.
>
> I think someone needs to question the reasoning behind legal's opinion.
>
> HTH -- Mark D Powell --
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
> [mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org] On Behalf Of Robyn
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 9:58 AM
> To: m.haddon_at_comcast.net
> Cc: Oracle-L_at_Freelists
> Subject: Re: hanging shutdowns
>
> Micheal,
>
> I understand your position and when I arrived here, I made all the same
> arguments. I've been told that our legal department insists on a cold
> backup, and the requirement is non-negotiable. We run full test
> recoveries on all our major systems on a regular basis and we use the
> hot backups to do so. None of us doubt that the hot backups are
> adequate for recovery.
>
> So I guess we're not really 24x7, we're 24x7-15 and that 15 minutes is a
> sacred cow that I need to leave alone right now ...
>
> Thanks for the input and if I was calling the shots, I wouldn't do it
> this way. However, I would still need a script that would shut the
> database down quickly, possibly for maintenance or hardware issues, so I
> really appreciate the suggestions provided on this thread.
>
> Robyn
>
> On 2/27/06, Michael Haddon <m.haddon_at_comcast.net> wrote:
> > I definitely agree, the shutdown is not the problem, it is doing what
>
> > it is supposed to do in order to maintain data integrity and preserve
> > transactions. The real questions is 'why do you shutdown at all??', I
> > haven't been forced to perform a cold backup on a schedule in years. I
>
> > thought 7X24 really meant 7X24. If the production environment can deal
>
> > with the downtime necessary to perform cold backups, then couldn't
> > that time be used to perform batch transactions or some other
> necessary task.
> >
> > I would recommend spending some time on hot backups and showing your
> > boss that the software is a little smarter these days and a complete,
> > point in time/ or some other time recovery is easy. Take a few
> > days/weeks and show him that you can give him an exact copy of his
> > production system anytime he wants it. Make him comfortable and your
> > cold backups will be a thing of the past, otherwise, get another boss!
> >
> > Just my .02
> >
> > Mike
> >
> --
> http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
>
>
> --
> http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
>
>
>

--
Robyn Anderson Sands
email: Robyn.Sands_at_SciAtl.com
--
http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l