Re: Becoming a DBA questions

As someone with 7 years in the HR (Compensation) field, and now in the IT/ERP field working on my Oracle DBA OCP, I can speak with some knowledge and experience.    Using the term "Entry Level" on a resume is self-defeating.  Most technical resumes are still screened by by the HR departments first, before the hiring managers even see them.  A good recruiter will be able to identify whether you have the experience or not.  If not, they will defer a judgment call to the hiring IT manager anyway.  That doesn't mean that you should lie on your resume or deceive anyone.  But don't shoot yourself in the foot before you even get your foot in the door.    Annual salaries for DBAs are, indeed, coming down.  If you can get ahold of a good IT salary survey, make note of not only the average salary, but the median salary.  The median salary is what is commonly used to benchmark a position--not the average salary.   If a formal salary structure exists at a company, they will normally use the median as the compa-ratio fo r the particular paygrade or step.  Use common sense, do your homework, and ask what you're worth; but always leave room for compromise.    MS Access IS a relational database.  However it is a file-server application, not a client-server database, and was not designed to handle large transactional systems over a large network.  It is designed for small to medium sized, non mission-critical business environments.  Properly designed, MS Access can serve many purposes, but you will never find Payroll or Financial systems using MS Access as a db platform or front-end.  MS Access is a great environment for learning databases and SQL, but it is only a starting point.   Concerning Oracle training--use everything that you can afford.  If it's a career-change, then consider formal Oracle University instructor-led training classes.  If you're already in the field, then self-study may work.  It takes tremendous self-discipline to go the self-study route with books and CDS or online training.   People who say that the OCP is valueless to the market have never tested.  I say to them--why not test?   Edward Lock Sr. Programmer Analyst PeopleSoft Project Office, University of Houston System ejlock_at_central.uh.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Karniotis, Stephen Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 12:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Becoming a DBA questions  Good afternoon all:   I have been holding back on replying to this email because I reallywanted to see what some of the other answers were, especially ones relatedto OCP.  Rachel C. will understand as my answers will be very direct.1. What is the average salary range for an entry-level DBA position? Ora position for someone who is just starting out as a DBA?>>> As a person that has worked as an Oracle DBA for over 13years, the entry-level salary had changed quite dramatically.  From themid-to late 1990s when starting DBAs could make upwards of 100K to "REALITY"when entry-level DBAs should be making no more than 70K.  Some may disagree,however, I don't think paying high salaries is warranted just because theperson is a DBA.  If they don't have the experience, they don't deserve thehigh monetary return.  I would say that 50K is probably on the high end forentry-level DBAs.  The days of high salaries, similarly the high consultingrates, are gone and organizations are now back to reality.  I actually hadsomeone whom has been out of work for over 6 months refuse a salary of 65Kas a DBA because he felt it was demeaning for him to accept it.2. In a job resume, should I request an entry-level position or wouldthat set me up for no phone calls?>>> I disagree with everyone else regarding not using"entry-level" on your resume.  If you have no experience and you are lookingto work in a team environment, then using this wording is acceptable.  Youwill have to pick the job postings carefully so you don't send resumes toorganizations that require lots of experience.  If you can control that,then remove "entry-level" and use "junior" instead.3. What are some step s I should take to becoming a DBA w/ thebackground that I have (ie. generated databases w/ MS Access)?>>> Well, MS Access, although people consider this a relationaldatabase, is not.  It is a file system that looks like a relationaldatabase.  Generating databases in MS Access is nothing like creatingdatabase environments in Oracle.  You will honestly need to start fromscratch.  The data modeling and application database creating may be similarif you followed the normalization rules and generally accepted guidelines.I would highly recommend using either Oracle's online learning network,locating a college/university where they teach Oracle.  These do exist as Ihave taught several of these classes in Michigan.  I would highly recommendcontacting the Los Angeles Oracle User's Group for the location of coursesthat are taught.If you are a devoted person when it comes to online training, thenOracle online learning is a good start.  There are other organizations thatoffer Oracle online training, however, I don't rem ember their names.Understand that online training only provides you the bare basics.  It isnot going to give you the exposure and experience needed to be a true DBA.a) Recommended training/education in Los Angeles area?b) Where do you recommend I study & is online training valuable?4. If I could learn Oracle software on my own through Independent study(books & reference sites), could this be sufficient enough to go about toget a job?>>> OK.  This is where I disagree with everyone.  The OCP is valuelessto the market.  It looks good on the resume because almost no organizationreally understands how it is obtained.  As one of the authors for the firstindependent Oracle certification, we designed the certification exam so thatinexperienced Oracle DBAs COULD NOT pass it.  It required Experience!!!  TheOracle OCP only requires you to take some training, read some books, andthen take the exam.  We as experienced DBAs has proven this time after timeby giving the exam to people that have never been DBAs in their care ers andhave only read some basic Oracle Concepts material.  There are a lot of OCPDBAs that still don't understand how to get stuff out of Oracle's DataDictionary or, for that matter, what is a data dictionary.  I see no valuein the OCP except as a training mechanism.  When high school students canpass the exam without any experience in Oracle, that should tell you thevalue of the exam itself.If you can learn portions of the Oracle software on your own, Great!It will be impossible to learn all of Oracle on your own as the software isvast in features and requires different configurations that you may not haveavailable to you.  In teams of acquiring a job from learning the software,you may be able to get a job working in a team of Oracle DBAs.  However, Iwill be the first one here to say that I would not hire you as a stand aloneDBA with just that type of experience.  For small shops, maybe, but forenterprises, no way.a) Is the OCP certification necessary?b) If I took this independent study route instead of fo rmal trainingfrom like a vocational school, would the steps to getting a job (or even myOCP certification) be the same?  Or would it be more difficult withoutformal training?Independent study mechanisms are typically not structured inlearning capabilities.  You need a structured model to properly learn theridiculous things in Oracle, especially with Oracle9i.  I would start withsome basic online training and then move to a semi-formal study program.From there, either vocational, self-study or a more formal class would bebeneficial.5. What are some valuable books and resources to aid in my training?>>> Rachel's DBA 101 book would be an excellent choice.  Some of thebooks by O'Riely and Oracle Press would also help you.  Many people havegiven excellent suggestions here.  There are so many titles that I would notbeg to know them offhand.6. How much does Oracle9i cost & would it be worth it to get since iwant to learn?  Are there evaluation copies out there that I can get myhands on?>>> You can download Oracle9i  from www.oracle.com.  In terms of cost, itvaries depending on the number of CPUs and hardware chosen.  You can alsopay for an Oracle Technology Network membership and receive the CDs fromOracle.  Understand that Oracle is not a small software product.  Therequirements on your hardware are quite large, so make sure you have enoughbandwidth in terms of CPU and memory before investing in it.7. What are the basic introductory courses/resources/training I coulddo to learn or get started in DBA training?8. Basically, please list the steps you took to become a DBA (startingwith education/training to job entry) and how you sould suggest I should goabout starting to learn the fundamentals and then more in depth?7 & 8 are too generic.  I would advise contacting your own DBA staff andasking them this question.  I always recommend becoming an Oracle developerbefore becoming a DBA. DBAs that have never developed Oracle-based softwarewill never understand the issues related to query optimization, performancemanagement, e tc. as well as if they had attempted to create anOracle-centric application.  In many cases, I have seen Oracle DBAs with nodevelopment experience really screw up an application environment.Hope this helps.Thank YouStephen P. KarniotisTechnical Alliance ManagerCompuware CorporationDirect: (248) 865-4350Mobile: (248) 408-2918Email: Stephen.Karniotis_at_Compuware.comWeb: www.compuware.com-----Original Message-----Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 11:15 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: Becoming a DBA questions1. Depends on the company/part of the country and the economy.2. State your experience with other databases. Once you get Oracle upand running at home, add that so they know you have installed it (IMHOinstalling on Linux is more impressive as it is very close to unix, butdoing it under windows is better than nothing.) Don't say "looking forentry-level Oracle dba job" in your mission statement.  Say somethinglike "looking for the opportunity to move my proven database design andadministrati on skills to a new level with Oracle" or something to thatextent.3. If you are good at self-study, Oracle has online learning thatappears pretty reasonable ($99/month or something like that).  But getyourself an Oracle installation to practice on first.4. Quite possible to get a job with self-study and training.  Passingyour OCP tests will help you get that first job.  After that it is niceto put on your biography when you submit papers to present at theconferences and user groups.6. I'm not in the office today, but I'm sure someone will correct me onthe title, but the two books I think are great area. Oracle 8i dba from Oracle Press. I think that is the one that has agreat example of real-life paper to database that explains things verywell.b. DBA 101 by Rachel Carmichael (and others). I haven't had the chanceto read it yet, but I've got a friend who is an aspiring dba so I'velooked at it and he really loves it.  And since I'm a big fan ofRachel's work, I have to recommend it.8. Well, I have been working wi th databases for many years. But myfirst Oracle job was an accident.  I was hired for other skills that Ihad and the day I started my new manager said "the Oracle DBA isleaving. You've got a lot of database experience on your resume. Want tobe our Oracle DBA?"  The rest is history.  My advice to you is to getOracle installed and decide on a project that you can use and maintain.I built a contact manager using an Access front-end.  I kept learningnew ways to improve the design and adding new features.  Besides comingin very handy for job searches, it gave me something to discuss whennetworking and someone would hear that I worked with databases and askwhat I had worked on recently.  I would also recommend looking up alocal user group (start at www.ioug.org and click on the User Grouplink). Attend and make friends. These will be your peers and if you'relucky, you may find someone that will become your mentor.  They may notbe in a position to hire you, but they (we) are generally connected tothe pulse of the hi ring market and know when someone is looking toexpand or hire a replacement.  They can also help you learn new thingsand correct any misconceptions you have.  At the social portion of theevent (most user groups have conversation time) find someone who hasbeen a dba for a number of years and ask them if you can talk to them.Explain what your understanding of something is and then pay attentionas they either correct you or add to your knowledge.  Before you knowit, you will be sitting in an interview and the interviewer will ask youto explain how to use pctfree and you will know from your conversationsand testing.Good luck.Stephen AndertScottsdale, Arizona>>> LBanzali_at_aol.com 12/31 2:00 AM >>>> Questions for a Database Administrator:1. What is the average salary range for an entry-level DBA position? Oraposition for someone who is just starting out as a DBA?2.  In a job resume, should I request an entry-level position or wouldthatset me up for no phone calls?3.  What are some steps I should take to becoming a DBA w/ thebackgroundthat I have (ie. generated databases w/ MS Access)?a) Recommended training/education in Los Angeles area?b) Where do you recommend I study & is online training valuable?4.  If I could learn Oracle software on my own through Independentstudy(books & reference sites), could this be sufficient enough to go aboutto geta job?a)  Is the OCP certification necessary?b) If I took this independent study route instead of formal trainingfromlike a vocational school, would the steps to getting a job (or even myOCPcertification) be the same?  Or would it be more difficult withoutformaltraining?5.  What are some valuable books and resources to aid in my training?6.  How much does Oracle9i cost & would it be worth it to get since iwant tolearn?  Are there evaluation copies out there that I can get my handson?7.  What are the basic introductory courses/resources/training I coulddo tolearn or get started in DBA training?8.  Basically, please list the steps you took to become a DBA (startingwitheducation/tr

aining to job entry) and how you sould suggest I should goaboutstarting to learn the fundamentals and then more in depth?Thank you!!  I really appreciate your help!!Please, write to me @LBanzali@aol.comthanks!!smiles & happy new year 2002!!!!--Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com--Author: Stephen Andert  INET: StephenAndert@firsthealth.comFat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051San Diego, California        -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists--------------------------------------------------------------------To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).--Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com--Author: Karniotis, Stephen  INET: Stephen_Karniotis@compuware.com
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