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Home -> Community -> Mailing Lists -> Oracle-L -> RE: Real world OCP
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The good solutions to professional certification are too expensive. I think that engineers have the most practical system. To become a professional engineer you must
Therefore, you must pass tests (bogus though they may be) and have some experience in the field. But all that you really gain besides the prestige is the right to "put your shingle up", sign certain documents, and approve the work of engineers who don't have their PE. The end result then is that you have the equivalent qualifications in your field of a lawyer who has passed the bar exam or an accountant who has passed their CPA exams.
None of this excuses one from being competant at one's work.
-----Original Message-----
From: Boivin, Patrice J [mailto:BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 8:25 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Real world OCP
You propose turning Oracle DBAs into professionals.
That could prove useful, but there has to be a real need out there for reliability. It worked for physicians because they could say that if they are not certified and trained properly, people may die. On a side track, I am not sure I understand how lawyers managed to define themselves as professionals, this may bring my argument down to nothing...
Many managers see Oracle administration as important, I am not sure that there are that many who consider database administration to be as critical as the role of physicians. They just hire two or three people to reduce the likelihood of mistakes, or they bring in consultants once in a while to double-check their DBA's work.
Also there is tension already between OCPs and existing (veteran) DBAs, you should have read some of the threads going through this listserv last year. Some DBAs are certified but they hesitate to tell people because they see it as something they had to do, but not as something they needed to do.
Imagine if you impose an even more rigorous certification scheme, I am not sure everyone would be pleased, esp. if they are competent already and end up having to dish out more money to become "professionals".
There is a potential benefit to professionalisation, in that there is a certain standard imposed. In turn this could lead to higher income.
Remember that employers want to keep salary costs down. Which is more important to them? Reliability, or costs. They would have to make that calculation, poor reliability costs money.
I would argue that if our role was to become a profession, training would have to be hands-on like it is for surgeons, not based on memorization like the bar exam and the current OCP exams. Oracle is in a bind in that regard, how can they ensure that people who attempt their exams have enough practical experience or savvy to prove reliable in the workplace.
Also because medicine impacts everyone, physicians and nurses managed to get their training through universities here in Canada. In the U.S. students have to fork out truck loads of money, in Canada less, but still the professional trainng is offered via public educational institutions. I don't know if there are public universities out there willing to take an Oracle professional program seriously. Is the demand there? Maybe it could become a cash cow for them.
Certainly there are training centers that focus on churning out OCPs and MCSEs, maybe they could be convinced to offer more comprehensive programs. The tuition cost would go up though, and with the OCP being available they would have a hard time convincing potential DBAs to go the long route instead of the OCP route. Many of the people to go for the OCP are in the midst of a career change, or want to shift from being developers to DBAs. Many of them barely have enough money to pay for the OCP training, how many would be able to pay more money for a more comprehensive training programme.
Because for a while everyone wanted to be an MCSE (just like a few years back everyone wanted to be a CNE), Microsoft has generated these complex, tricky exams that are starting to look more like IQ tests to try to weed out unqualified candidates. Intelligence is important, but intelligent people can get bored and forget to do routine work, which is important for database administration. There would have to be a proper balance between practical training and testing for the professional status to be valid.
Could Oracle Corp. be convinced of dropping or fortifying the OCP training program? Maybe they could make it a requirement that training centers provide a practicum, some kind of internship like what doctors have to go through. Maybe there should be two: 6 months as the equivalent of a DBO, then a year later, 6 months as a junior DBA somewhere with real responsibilities. Some kind of coop program.
Oracle would have to build partnerships with corporations willing to take in trainees, that means Oracle would have to pay these companies in exchange for training that meets some standards.
Certainly more work for Oracle's education division!
But it just might prove worthwhile, Oracle has an interest in ensuring that the people operating their software are competent and reliable. I remember reading somewhere that DBA error is the most common cause of downtime and prolongs recovery time.
Just a few thoughts.
Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systhmes Technology Services | Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Rigion des Maritimes, MPO
E-Mail: boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca <mailto:boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca>
Ph: (902) 426-4774
-----Original Message----- From: Gait, Christopher [SMTP:cgait_at_condor.nrl.navy.mil] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 1:04 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Real world OCP I'm only part of the way along the DBA OCP path (I'm technically OCP because I passed the incredibly lame DBO exam, but have three more tests to go on DBA). I have found so far that the parts of the exam I know best are the ones I've done at work or on my own Linux box at home. Those are the questions where you don't even think about the answer, like: 'how do you change the block size of a database?' I think the idea of OCP is excellent. I think the implementation sucks. Oracle seems to be imitating Microsoft in its model for testing
(lots of
tests, expensive, rote memorization, lots of stress on things the software company is trying to sell, such as the ludicrous stress on lock manager in the DBO exam). What we need is to work from within IOUG-A to establish a system like the one used to prepare doctors. There should be training programs, case studies, internships and most importantly: board certification. A person should not be permitted to be an enterprise DBA without either showing that they already have the experience to prove their ability or have gone through a grueling internship culminating in a battery of written and hands-on tests and a committee examination. That way when an employer demands (as they all do) that a DBA have 3+ years experience, a board certified DBA can show them the names of 3-5 enterprise DBA's who will vouch for him/her. Is this a realistic idea? No, not particularly, but then the conversion from the part-time barbers/part-time doctors of the nineteenth century who accepted chickens as payment to our golf-playing, mansion dwelling modern medicos did happen, and a lot of it came from organizations of doctors themselves. End of daydream. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 5:32 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've seen a number of threads at various stages about whether OCP is of any real practical value. For example some have expressed the point of view that it's a memory test and whilst it's fine to know the theoery practical experience is significant too. I don't know how many OCP's actively take part on this list but it occured to me that with the range of problems being posted here that a possible good validation of OCP, possibly especially for those who "crash coursed" it is to see how many of the problems posted you can answer..... It's kinda easier when they're not your problems ;) Of course the Oracle product is expanding and there are now OCPs for various areas but I think the principle still applies. For the past few weeks, when I've had time, I've been looking a questions posted and trying to see if I can answer them, comparing my attempts with those posted. It's a bit of fun and also a real eyer opener about my lack of knowledge, or misunderstood POV in many cases. Thanks to all who share knowledge on the list!!! Any OCP's on the list care to share how well they do at answering questions posted and for background whether they "crashed coursed" or got certification there after X years of on the job experience?. Regards, Sean :) ###### ###### ###### ###### # # # # # # # # Rookie #### # # ###### ###### Data # # # # # # # # Base # # ####### ###### # # Adminstrator -------------------------------- ------------ Organon (Ireland) Ltd. E-mail: sean.oneill_at_organon.ie [subscribed: Digest Mode] The only man who never makes a mistake is the man who never does anything. - Theodore Roosevelt -- Author: Gait, Christopher INET: cgait_at_condor.nrl.navy.mil Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-LReceived on Wed Jun 28 2000 - 09:00:29 CDT
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFE10A.E2C9E80E Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2650.12"> <TITLE>RE: Real world OCP</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The good solutions to professional certification are = too expensive. I think that engineers have the most practical = system. To become a professional engineer you must </FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2> 1. have an engineering degree,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> 2. pass the engineer-in-training = exam,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> 3. have three years engineering = experience if your degree is from an accredited school or five years if = not accredited,</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2> 4. pass the professional engineer = exam.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Therefore, you must pass tests (bogus though they may = be) and have some experience in the field. But all that you = really gain besides the prestige is the right to "put your shingle = up", sign certain documents, and approve the work of engineers who = don't have their PE. The end result then is that you have the = equivalent qualifications in your field of a lawyer who has passed the = bar exam or an accountant who has passed their CPA exams.</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>None of this excuses one from being competant at = one's work.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Boivin, Patrice J [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca">mailto:BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.= ca</A>]</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 8:25 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: RE: Real world OCP</FONT> </P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>You propose turning Oracle DBAs into = professionals.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>That could prove useful, but there has to be a real = need out there for</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>reliability. It worked for physicians because = they could say that if they</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>are not certified and trained properly, people may = die. On a side track, I</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>am not sure I understand how lawyers managed to = define themselves as</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>professionals, this may bring my argument down to = nothing...</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Many managers see Oracle administration as important, = I am not sure that</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>there are that many who consider database = administration to be as critical</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>as the role of physicians. They just hire two = or three people to reduce the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>likelihood of mistakes, or they bring in consultants = once in a while to</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>double-check their DBA's work.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Also there is tension already between OCPs and = existing (veteran) DBAs, you</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>should have read some of the threads going through = this listserv last year.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Some DBAs are certified but they hesitate to tell = people because they see it</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>as something they had to do, but not as something = they needed to do.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Imagine if you impose an even more rigorous = certification scheme, I am not</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>sure everyone would be pleased, esp. if they are = competent already and end</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>up having to dish out more money to become = "professionals".</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>There is a potential benefit to professionalisation, = in that there is a</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>certain standard imposed. In turn this could = lead to higher income.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Remember that employers want to keep salary costs = down. Which is more</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>important to them? Reliability, or = costs. They would have to make that</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>calculation, poor reliability costs money.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I would argue that if our role was to become a = profession, training would</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>have to be hands-on like it is for surgeons, not = based on memorization like</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the bar exam and the current OCP exams. Oracle = is in a bind in that regard,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>how can they ensure that people who attempt their = exams have enough</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>practical experience or savvy to prove reliable in = the workplace.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Also because medicine impacts everyone, physicians = and nurses managed to get</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>their training through universities here in = Canada. In the U.S. students</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>have to fork out truck loads of money, in Canada = less, but still the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>professional trainng is offered via public = educational institutions. I</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>don't know if there are public universities out = there willing to take an</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Oracle professional program seriously. Is the = demand there? Maybe it could</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>become a cash cow for them.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Certainly there are training centers that focus on = churning out OCPs and</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>MCSEs, maybe they could be convinced to offer more = comprehensive programs.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>The tuition cost would go up though, and with the = OCP being available they</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>would have a hard time convincing potential DBAs to = go the long route</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>instead of the OCP route. Many of the people = to go for the OCP are in the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>midst of a career change, or want to shift from = being developers to DBAs.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Many of them barely have enough money to pay for the = OCP training, how many</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>would be able to pay more money for a more = comprehensive training programme.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Because for a while everyone wanted to be an MCSE =
(just like a few years</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>back everyone wanted to be a CNE), Microsoft has = generated these complex,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>tricky exams that are starting to look more like IQ = tests to try to weed out</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>unqualified candidates. Intelligence is = important, but intelligent people</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>can get bored and forget to do routine work, which = is important for database</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>administration. There would have to be a = proper balance between practical</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>training and testing for the professional status to = be valid.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Could Oracle Corp. be convinced of dropping or = fortifying the OCP training</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>program? Maybe they could make it a = requirement that training centers</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>provide a practicum, some kind of internship like = what doctors have to go</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>through. Maybe there should be two: 6 = months as the equivalent of a DBO,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>then a year later, 6 months as a junior DBA = somewhere with real</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>responsibilities. Some kind of coop = program.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Oracle would have to build partnerships with = corporations willing to take in</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>trainees, that means Oracle would have to pay these = companies in exchange</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>for training that meets some standards. = </FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Certainly more work for Oracle's education = division!</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>But it just might prove worthwhile, Oracle has an = interest in ensuring that</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the people operating their software are competent = and reliable. I remember</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>reading somewhere that DBA error is the most common = cause of downtime and</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>prolongs recovery time.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Just a few thoughts.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Regards,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Patrice Boivin</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. = des syst=E8mes</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Technology = Services | Services = technologiques</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Informatics = Branch | Direction de = l'informatique </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Maritimes Region, DFO = | R=E9gion des Maritimes, MPO</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>E-Mail: boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca <<A = HREF=3D"mailto:boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca">mailto:boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.= ca</A>> </FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ph: (902) 426-4774</FONT> </P> <BR> <P> <FONT = SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR> <FONT = SIZE=3D2>From: Gait, Christopher = [SMTP:cgait_at_condor.nrl.navy.mil]</FONT> <BR> <FONT = SIZE=3D2>Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 1:04 AM</FONT> <BR> <FONT = SIZE=3D2>To: Multiple recipients of list = ORACLE-L</FONT> <BR> <FONT = SIZE=3D2>Subject: RE: Real = world OCP</FONT> </P> <P> <FONT SIZE=3D2>I'm only = part of the way along the DBA OCP path (I'm technically OCP</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>because</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>I passed = the incredibly lame DBO exam, but have three more tests to</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>go on</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>DBA). I = have found so far that the parts of the exam I know best are</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>ones I've = done at work or on my own Linux box at home. Those are the</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>questions = where you don't even think about the answer, like: 'how do</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>you</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>change = the block size of a database?' </FONT> </P> <P> <FONT SIZE=3D2>I think = the idea of OCP is excellent. I think the implementation</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>sucks.</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>Oracle = seems to be imitating Microsoft in its model for testing</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>(lots of</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>tests, = expensive, rote memorization, lots of stress on things the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>software</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>company = is trying to sell, such as the ludicrous stress on lock</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>manager in</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>the DBO = exam).</FONT> </P> <P> <FONT SIZE=3D2>What we = need is to work from within IOUG-A to establish a system</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>like the</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>one used = to prepare doctors. There should be training programs, case</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>studies, = internships and most importantly: board certification. A</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>person</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>should = not be permitted to be an enterprise DBA without either</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>showing that</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>they = already have the experience to prove their ability or have gone</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>through</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>a = grueling internship culminating in a battery of written and</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>hands-on tests</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>and a = committee examination. That way when an employer demands (as</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>they all</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>do) that = a DBA have 3+ years experience, a board certified DBA can</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>show them</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>the names = of 3-5 enterprise DBA's who will vouch for him/her.</FONT> </P> <P> <FONT SIZE=3D2>Is this a = realistic idea? No, not particularly, but then the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>conversion from</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>the = part-time barbers/part-time doctors of the nineteenth century</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>who</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>accepted = chickens as payment to our golf-playing, mansion dwelling</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>modern</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>medicos = did happen, and a lot of it came from organizations of</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>doctors</FONT> <BR> <FONT = SIZE=3D2>themselves.</FONT> </P> <P> <FONT SIZE=3D2>End of = daydream.</FONT> </P> <P> <FONT = SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: = Tuesday, June 27, 2000 5:32 AM</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>To: = Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</FONT> </P> <BR> <P> <FONT SIZE=3D2>I've seen = a number of threads at various stages about whether OCP is</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>of any</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>real = practical value. For example some have expressed the point = of</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>view</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>that it's = a memory test and whilst it's fine to know the theoery</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>practical</FONT> <BR> <FONT = SIZE=3D2>experience is significant too. I don't know how many = OCP's actively</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>take</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>part on = this list but it occured to me that with the range of</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>problems being</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>posted = here that a possible good validation of OCP, possibly</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>especially for</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>those who = "crash coursed" it is to see how many of the problems</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>posted you</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>can = answer..... It's kinda easier when they're not your problems = ;)</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>Of course = the Oracle product is expanding and there are now OCPs for</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>various</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>areas but = I think the principle still applies. For the past few</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>weeks, when</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>I've had = time, I've been looking a questions posted and trying to</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>see if I</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>can = answer them, comparing my attempts with those posted. It's = a</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>bit of fun</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>and also = a real eyer opener about my lack of knowledge, or</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>misunderstood POV</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>in many = cases. Thanks to all who share knowledge on the list!!! </FONT> </P> <P> <FONT SIZE=3D2>Any OCP's = on the list care to share how well they do at answering</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>questions</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>posted = and for background whether they "crashed coursed" or = got</FONT> <BR> <FONT = SIZE=3D2>certification there after X years of on the job = experience?.</FONT> </P> <BR> <BR> <P> <FONT = SIZE=3D2>Regards,</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>Sean = :)</FONT> </P> <P> <FONT = SIZE=3D2>###### ###### ###### ###### </FONT> <BR> <FONT = SIZE=3D2># # # # = # # # # Rookie</FONT> <BR> <FONT = SIZE=3D2>#### # # = ###### ###### Data</FONT> <BR> <FONT = SIZE=3D2># # # # = # # # # Base </FONT> <BR> <FONT = SIZE=3D2># # ####### ###### = # # Adminstrator</FONT> <BR> <FONT = SIZE=3D2>-------------------------------- ------------ </FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>Organon =
(Ireland) Ltd.</FONT>
<BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>E-mail: = sean.oneill_at_organon.ie [subscribed: Digest Mode]</FONT> </P> <P> <FONT SIZE=3D2>The only = man who never makes a mistake is the man who never does</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>anything.</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2> - = Theodore Roosevelt</FONT> </P> <P> <FONT SIZE=3D2>-- </FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>Author: = Gait, Christopher</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2> = INET: cgait_at_condor.nrl.navy.mil</FONT> </P> <P> <FONT SIZE=3D2>Fat City = Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) = 538-5051</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>San = Diego, California -- Public = Internet access / Mailing</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Lists</FONT> <BR> <FONT = SIZE=3D2>---------------------------------------------------------------= -----</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>To REMOVE = yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>to: = ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>the = message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>(or the = name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may</FONT> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2>also send = the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-- </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Author: Boivin, Patrice J</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> INET: BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Fat City Network Services -- (858) = 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>San Diego, = California -- Public Internet =
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