Re: theory and practice: ying and yang

"Alfredo Novoa" <alfredo_novoa_at_hotmail.com> wrote in message news:jatd9113t5nvs404pe63npqpoqs4qg5ptu_at_4ax.com...
> On Thu, 26 May 2005 23:36:05 GMT, "mountain man"
> <hobbit_at_southern_seaweed.com.op> wrote:
>
>>> Indeed, one should be prepared for any kind of shameful arguments
>>
>>Pot? Black? Quoting you in another thread .....
>
> You are polluting the group with incoherences for a long time.

And you have a serious POV problem.

>>> And an Isetta has some right to be termed "sport car".
>>
>>So you are asserting that IBM, Oracle and MS SQL-DBMS
>>have no right to be termed relational?
>
> They have legal right but their products are not relational.

Their products take advantage of the RM since 1979.

>>>>Vendors IBM, Oracle and Microsoft are taking a large advantage
>>>>of the RM.
>>>
>>> But a little part of its full advantage.
>>
>>My point, which you appear to agree with, is that the vendors
>>are indeed taking some advantage from the RM. I am not at
>>this point concerned with 'How Much', only that it is not null.
>
> Of course it is not null, that is evident and nobody said the
> contrary. You don't need to understand the Relational Model in order
> to take some advantage on it.

Correct, and since 1979 with Oracle.

>>> SQL DBMS vendors have made the database systems practice unnecesarily
>>> complex and esoteric at expense of usefulness.
>>
>>That's why these vendors command over 85% of the
>>database market, with this share increasing every year.
>
> No, that is due to other reasons. SQL DBMS are ill designed but they
> still are the best we have.

Of course they are, because they have to a large degree (not a small degree) embraced the principles of the RM according to Codd - not CJ Date.

>>> Date's approach is scientifical and the esoterism is in your side.
>>
>>Date ignores the proofs of Godel and Chaitin.
>
> This is plain nonsensical.

Codd, not Date, was the author of the RM. Codd reserves a place for nulls.
Date does not.
End of story.

Today's RDBMS software follows the RM of Codd, not the RM as portrayed by Date et al.

>>> The thread's subject is a good example of that.
>>
>>
>>Are you in this just for the money Alfredo?
>
> What is "this"?

This is what you make of it dude.
Just behave yourself in public.

Have a nice day,

-- 
Pete Brown
IT Managers & Engineers
Falls Creek
Australia
www.mountainman.com.au/software