Re: The MySQL/PHP pair

"Dawn M. Wolthuis" <dwolt_at_tincat-group.comREMOVE> wrote:

>"Paul" <paul_at_test.com> wrote in message
>news:418b4557$0$4012$ed2619ec_at_ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
>> Dawn M. Wolthuis wrote:
>> > My claim is that there is nothing about modeling data logically as
>relations
>> > that requires 1NF (as previously defined).
>>
>> If you start with first-order propositions when building your model then
>> I think 1NF is required.
>
>I know I have some reading to do re 2nd order logic so that I really
>understand just where we move from 1st to 2nd order logic being required and
>just where 2nd order logic is problematic when querying data.
>
>What is the problem if I want to persist the proposition:
>
>Person
>Bob Smith has e-mail addresses of bob_at_aol.com and bobsmith_at_msn.com
>
>It seems to me that there are advantages to modeling this predicate in this
>way rather than modeling it with the statements

     And those are?

     I would rather have the data in workable pieces.

>Email
>The Person with ID 12345 has an e-mail address of bob_at_aol.com
>The Person with ID 12345 has an e-mail address of bobsmith_at_msn.com
>
>Person
>The Person with ID 12345 is Bob Smith.
>
>Conceptually a single statement is clearer. If the database has some reason

     I say less clear. The single statement is necessarily more complex than simple statements, and there is more room for ambiguity. If you are going to allow such complex statements, how are you going to state them unambiguously? I suggest not trying to do it in English.

>of spitting our one predicate into three prior to storing it and before
>retrieving it, so be it, but logically why not handle it with the single
>statement?

[snip]

>Relations, particularly those that are functions, work well from my
>perspective, but, again, I don't know where the higher order logic becomes a
>problem. Thanks. --dawn

     AIUI, the magic word is Godel.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:

     I have preferences.
     You have biases.
     He/She has prejudices.