Re: dbms/rdbms software & its environment

Hi Farmer,

This will not be a long and detailed reply to your remarks. I 'll just state that you seem to miss the difference between computer systems and the rest of the world as it exists out there. The fundamental problem you seem to encounter is an unability to grasp that a computer system (and a database as well) can only contain a representation of real-world fenomena. What is in a computer is never the real thing.

Consequently, organizational intelligence as such can never be stored (and fixed) into a computer system. Organizations are complex structures consisting of people (most importantly), structures, buildings, and equipment. Those are all real-world things. They do not exist in computers. They are registered in computers, perhaps simulated, but they don't exist there.

As long as computers are not intelligent, the same applies for (organizational) intelligence: it resides in the people, perhaps in regulations, but not in computers (and don't start about regulations being implemented by means of computers, 'cause it 's still the regulations that are primary here).

Think about this. Try and grasp this. I don't know about your background, but do realize: the world doesn't start or end with computers.

Regards,

Ruud.

mountain man wrote:
>
> "Ruud de Koter" <ruud_dekoter_at_hp.com> wrote in message
> news:3FA0CEBA.654D6439_at_hp.com...
> > Hi there,
>
> Good day.
>
> > mountain man wrote:
> > >
> > > There have been a few astute posts here and there
> > > to the effect that notwithstanding the benefit of the
> > > development of "the relational model" for databases,
> > > for the last 20 years database theory (a la Date for
> > > example) has remained database centric in its thinking.
> > >
> >
> > You 're doing the same trick again: need to get the computer environment
> into
> > database theory, 'cause it 's incomplete without it.
>
> What I am doing is trying to understand this implication.
>
> Is there anything wrong with trying to understand the nature of a
> generalised computer system (os, rdbms,apps) in which the apps
> environment has been contained within the rdbms?
>
> See below...
>
> > Gosh: need to get the organizational environment into computing theory,
> 'cause
> > it 's no use without organization (wasn't it you writing about
> organizational
> > intellegence).
> >
> > Yeah: we 'll have to get the society as a whole into the organizational
> theory,
> > 'cause the organization does not function in a vacuum.
>
> My article was about a term labelled organisational intelligence.
> It is not a term used widely in theory.
> As I have found since, the term is mainly used in selling.
> This is unfortunate. My aim is the theory here.
>
> However in my article I defined OI quite specifically.
> Firstly I loosely defined it to be that OI contained in the computer
> software.
> by this ... "the sum of the data plus the sum of the source code"
>
> I then derived a formula for the location and distribution of this OI
> across a client server software environment consistent of:
> * operating system software
> * rdbms software
> * application system software
>
> Give us a break. Do you understand the formula?
>
> > Your approach will lead you to a theory of everything. There are, at least
> to my
> > knowledge, no good examples of theories of everything. That is simply to
> > complicated.
>
> I agree. TOES are not the whole appendage system.
> You have missed the fundamental.
>
> In my case however, this theory has emerged after the contruction
> of a software tool for the sql server rdbms whereby application software
> components can be configured and stored as rdbms stored procedures.
>
> This tool is not complicated.
> It is not a theory. It is a tool I developed in my trade as a database
> engineer which has the potential to change the way application system
> software components are stored.
>
> When an entire suite of application system software components
> are represented and function as stored procedures within the rdbms
> then what is left external to the rdbms software? Only this tool,
> functioning as the interface between the user and the database.
>
> > One of the first steps in theory-building is choosing a limited field of
> which
> > you can build a good (simplified) model. Try and make that step.
>
> In this case I have built the software first, as a tool of my trade.
> It is a concrete thing, very simple, very straightforward.
>
> I walk into a sql server site with the tool and need no other application
> development tool to commence the development of applications. The
> application development is accomplished by the development of stored
> procedures. All this is quite internal to the rdbms.
>
> Nothing is external to the rdbms enviornment, except the tool.
> (In terms of OI as defined: source code of the software and the data)
>
> I am trying to understand if this has theoretical implications.
>
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ruud.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Farmer Brown
> Falls Creek
> OZ
> www.mountainman.com.au/software

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Ruud de Koter                    HP OpenView Software Business Unit
Senior Software Engineer         IT Service Management Operation
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Email    : ruud_dekoter_at_hp.com

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