Re: HTML DB
From: Frank van Bortel <fvanbortel_at_netscape.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:43:53 +0100
Message-ID: <crtt8h$r6n$1_at_news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
>
>
> OK, I understand that the http protocol would make certain "Sql Forms" -
> like events impossible to deal with....for exmpkle:the server doesnt
> know when focus goes in or out of client side forms, it only "knows"
> when you submit a form or follow a link. But still, poking around the
> pre built "demo" applications available through marvel.oracle.com makes
> is seem as if some "forms" events are handled.....attach a pl/sql block
> before or after a query is executed looks as if its supported. I could
> be way wrong of course, thats the problem. I cant tell for sure what-all
> is going on with HTMLDB
>
>
>
> There's always more to know of course, but I've used the "pl/sql
> gateway" , i.e.Apache with mod_plsql to create smallish applications.
> Create a DAD, create stored procedures using htp and htf etc. I've even
> written a few pl/sql "pages",,,,,
> html with pls/sql used as an ebedded scripting language, then send the
> source through "loadpls" etc, to turn it into a stored procedure, but
> only to play with.
>
>
>
> Oh I'm shameless, I'll steal good ideas from anywhere. Thanx for the
> pointer.
>
>
>
> Raring to go, but how do you operationalize that. How do I start to
> "turn to HTMLDB" ?
>
>
>
> Can we get to see the pl/sql code for the packages somewhere, or is that
> Oracle condifential? Is the interface exposed, if not the implementation
> details?
> There must be some underlying data model for holding the data that
> describes an application. Presumably the GUI helps the end user set the
> data into the model, and then the packages execute using data strored in
> the model to render the application HTML.
>
> Can we get to see the model , (or have bits of it explained to us) or is
> that also a company secret?
> My experience has been that if I understand the underlying data model
> for a given application, the code sort of writes itself or that
> understanding somebody else's code written to be driven from that model
> is usually straightforward. If I dont understand the data model going
> in, following the code is a mother bear and usually involves trying to
> "reverse engineer" the model based on the code I'm looking at. Frustrating!
> .
>
>
>
> Do you mean for creating new applications or for reading internal HTMLDB
> code to help understand how it does what it does?
> Surely the people who designed the tool (he says, hoping for the best
> but fearing the worst) have provided a path by which
> the ordinary bear can learn to use the tool in finite time, starting
> from some "known" set of skills.
>
> So...here I am, one modal ursine, knowing (to some extent) html and
> pl/sq, with htp and htf among various other arcana.
> Where's the path?
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:43:53 +0100
Message-ID: <crtt8h$r6n$1_at_news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
Lee wrote:
>
>
> Frank van Bortel wrote:
>
>> Lee wrote: >> >>> I suppose this is the right place to bring up HTML DB (its a "tool", >>> no? ) >>> >>> Has anybody started using it? Whats the recommended way to break the >>> ice learning how to build applications with it.? >> >>>
> <SNIP>
>>> >> Forget Forms.
>
>
> OK, I understand that the http protocol would make certain "Sql Forms" -
> like events impossible to deal with....for exmpkle:the server doesnt
> know when focus goes in or out of client side forms, it only "knows"
> when you submit a form or follow a link. But still, poking around the
> pre built "demo" applications available through marvel.oracle.com makes
> is seem as if some "forms" events are handled.....attach a pl/sql block
> before or after a query is executed looks as if its supported. I could
> be way wrong of course, thats the problem. I cant tell for sure what-all
> is going on with HTMLDB
>
>> >> Start learning HTML (you don't say whether you have that skill...). >> You know PL/SQL; read up on the htp and htf procedures and functions.
>
>
> There's always more to know of course, but I've used the "pl/sql
> gateway" , i.e.Apache with mod_plsql to create smallish applications.
> Create a DAD, create stored procedures using htp and htf etc. I've even
> written a few pl/sql "pages",,,,,
> html with pls/sql used as an ebedded scripting language, then send the
> source through "loadpls" etc, to turn it into a stored procedure, but
> only to play with.
>
>> >> Read a book about pl/sql and html; Sten Vesterli's 'Oracle 101 >> Web Applications' is one I like for the PL/SQL stuff and HTML. >> There are some examples and packages to be downloaded from his >> site. The book is not for sale anymore, if I'm correctly informed.
>
>
> Oh I'm shameless, I'll steal good ideas from anywhere. Thanx for the
> pointer.
>
>> >> Once you get the feel of that, turn to HTMLDB.
>
>
> Raring to go, but how do you operationalize that. How do I start to
> "turn to HTMLDB" ?
>
>> You'll see it's >> nothing else than a bunch of packages, like Sten Vesterli's, >> packed together, with a GUI added.
>
>
> Can we get to see the pl/sql code for the packages somewhere, or is that
> Oracle condifential? Is the interface exposed, if not the implementation
> details?
> There must be some underlying data model for holding the data that
> describes an application. Presumably the GUI helps the end user set the
> data into the model, and then the packages execute using data strored in
> the model to render the application HTML.
>
> Can we get to see the model , (or have bits of it explained to us) or is
> that also a company secret?
> My experience has been that if I understand the underlying data model
> for a given application, the code sort of writes itself or that
> understanding somebody else's code written to be driven from that model
> is usually straightforward. If I dont understand the data model going
> in, following the code is a mother bear and usually involves trying to
> "reverse engineer" the model based on the code I'm looking at. Frustrating!
> .
>
>> >> You'll need your PL/SQl programming skills again :)
>
>
> Do you mean for creating new applications or for reading internal HTMLDB
> code to help understand how it does what it does?
> Surely the people who designed the tool (he says, hoping for the best
> but fearing the worst) have provided a path by which
> the ordinary bear can learn to use the tool in finite time, starting
> from some "known" set of skills.
>
> So...here I am, one modal ursine, knowing (to some extent) html and
> pl/sq, with htp and htf among various other arcana.
> Where's the path?
http://download.oracle.com/otn/nt/oracle10g/htmldb/htmldb_1.6.zip
Latest standalone version of HTML DB. Should install to any platform,
as it contains sql code.
Lot of the package bodies are wrapped, though, so there's not much to
see about the internals.
And you'll need your pl/sql and html skills, as (after some time) you will get limited by HTML DB, and want to give your own signature to the sites/pages created. You almost certainly will have to dig into the generated code (which is not wrapped).
Could not find a tutorial, but there are some howto's: http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/database/htmldb/howtos/
-- Regards, Frank van BortelReceived on Mon Jan 10 2005 - 13:43:53 CET