Re: Oracle Development Tools Question

Don't get me wrong, I like Designer, as long as you use it for it's intended purpose, but....

Perhaps, in reference to user extensions, things have changed, but in 1997, Oracle's instructors, in the "Manage the Repository" administration course, gave the party line of "Sure, no sweat, user extensions are great" and the off-the-record line "Don't go there, upgrades are a nightmare". Hopefully, this is no longer true.

As for sharing of functions, I guarantee that, from where my company stands, trying to do true Enterprise Architecture Planning, lack of sharing business functions is a major show stopper when you have to use the same object for both functions and processes and you have over 20,000 of them. You end up having to frequently create copies or attempt to master/slave the functions which results in severe performance hits.

This is one of the things that Oracle didn't tell us when we first got into this tool 4 years ago with the expressed intention of creating a corporate metadata repository, to store all our metadata (following the Zachman framework for Enterprise Architecture and Spewak's Enterprise Architecture Planning approach), not just the database/ERD metadata. One other note about our environment, we are a zero generation shop. This tool is strictly a documentation tool for us. As such, user extensions would be great, since the basic objects in Designer don't cover everything in our environment.

I gather that Oracle agrees with us, since their sales support folks have told me that Repository 7 will have full support for sharing of any object, including functions.

Note to all: These are my personal views on Designer based on 4 years of use, mentoring and teaching, using both Paul's books and Albert Lulushi's (both excellent). None of their books describe anything near what my company has attempted to do with this tool. We are constantly used by Oracle Canada as a reference site for Designer in Canada because of the nature of our Enterprise Architecture work. I am looking forward to

Joel
Paul Dorsey wrote:

> I would just like to add a few clarifications:
>
> 1) The fact that fusiness functions cannot be shared is not a showstopper in
> most peoples minds with respect to enterprise development.
> I serve on the ODTUG enhancement committee and no one has ever logged that
> enhancement request. I built many enterprise wide systems without ever being
> aware of that limitation.
>
> 2) You are not hamstrung by using extensions. Upgrading a user extension is
> no more difficult than upgrading any other part of your repository. Any
> support or training person who gave you such bad advice is incorrect.
>
> --
> Paul Dorsey
> coauthor Oracle Designer Handbook
> coauthor Oracle Developer Advanced Forms and Reports
> both from Oracle Press
>
> Dulcian, Inc.
> (212) 595-7223
> web address: http://www.dulcian.com
> email: pdorsey_at_dulcian.com
>
> Joel Racicot <joel.racicot_at_home.com> wrote in message
> news:3887B645.17D52ECD_at_home.com...
> > In answer to question 1:
> >
> > Oracle Developer is an application development tool set, similar in nature
> > to VB. You can create Forms based applications.
> >
> > Oracle Designer is a modelling and development toolset. It allows you to
> > completely model your company and design & build applications based on
> your
> > processes and information requirements. Designer is a very sophisticated
> > toolset that has complete generation capabilities. Having said that,
> there
> > are certain circumstances when you shouldn't use Designer. One of these
> > circumstances is for true enterprise modelling and enterprise
> > architecture. Because of design decisions on Oracle's part, the object
> > that is most likely to be shared and most requires sharing (business
> > functions) is the only object that can't be shared. Also, while Oracle
> > advertises the Designer repository as "extensible", their own instructors
> > and support people will tell you that travelling down the path of user
> > extensions is committing yourself to living with the current version of
> > suffering through much pain in upgrades.
> >
> > Designer can provide full generation and as a result give you fully
> > documented, deployable apps if do all your work in Designer (definitely a
> > bonus for folks in large companies with regular turnover). The only
> > drawback is that if you make changes outside of Designer, your fully
> > documented system can quickly become an semi-documented nightmare. Change
> > management becomes critical.
> >
> > Question 3: Designer can generate C++, VB and web-based (PL/SQL-OAS type)
> > applications in addition to Oracle Forms & Reports. As for other
> > development products, one of the products we are currently in the process
> > of acquiring for web-based intranet developement is Cold Fusion. I'm sure
> > there are many others that can interoperate with an Oracle database. I
> > found Cold Fusion to be extremely easy to use and since it can use native
> > SQL*Net or ODBC, it is database and platform independent (very important
> in
> > my company, where there are two very determined camps, pro-MS and
> anti-MS).
> >
> > I hope this answers some of your questions. Most likely, it just created
> > more, which is usually the case whenever we embark on tool searches.
> >
> > Joel
> >
> > epicblue wrote:
> >
> > > I am new to internet application development. I am in the process of
> > > gathering information on development tools and platforms. After
> > > reviewing the Oracle web site I am still confused as to the differences
> > > between their products.
> > >
> > > 1) What is the difference between the designer and the developer? Do
> > > you need both? Which product is actually used to create the front end
> > > that runs on the web browser? What about the java based development
> > > tools?
> > >
> > > 2) I understand the difference between a database server and an
> > > application server. However there is an Oracle Database Server and a
> > > WebDB. There is also an Application Server and a Developer Server.
> > >
> > > 3) Are there competing products that I should look into? Can I mix and
> > > match products from other vendors to do the development?
> > >
> > > Any info would be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > > Before you buy.
> >
Received on Fri Jan 21 2000 - 13:26:46 CET