Re: How to normalize this?

From: Jan Hidders <hidders_at_gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 17:18:38 +0200
Message-ID: <5187c9ce$0$574$e4fe514c_at_dreader34.news.xs4all.nl>


On 2013-05-06 12:26:10 +0000, Erwin said:

> Op maandag 6 mei 2013 00:52:44 UTC+2 schreef Jan Hidders het volgende:

>> On 2013-05-05 19:32:35 +0000, Erwin said:
>> 
>>> That one does have the inter-component rule that R1 JOIN R2 === R1 
>>> JOIN>> > R3 (as I pointed out), no ?
>> 
>> Only if you want to be information-equivalent but conventional>> 
>> normalization does not require that. It only aims at obtaining a>> 
>> lossless decomposition.

>
> Well there's the whole contradiction isn't it.
>
> How can deliberate admission of "information differences" coexist with
> "aims of being lossless" ?
>
> If "information differences" are deliberately allowed, this can mean
> either or both of two things : something may be added, something may be
> lost.

Well, "lossless" means nothing is lost, but, yes, something is allowed to be added, i.e., the new schema might be able to represent information that the old one could not.

> I contend that the "lossless" in conventional normalization can be
> upheld only for such a perverse and narrow meaning of the term that the
> claim (of having "lossless" decompositions) becomes essentially
> meaningless/futile/irrelevant/...

That's an .. er .. interesting claim. :-)

> Lossless then seems to mean purely (exaggerating a little bit) that
> "all the original attributes are still in the design, somewhere,
> somehow". Relation schemas as mere sets of attributes, and
> normalization as manipulation/set-algebraic computation on sets of sets
> of attributes, and the only restriction being that the union of the
> final sets of attributes must be equal to the original set of
> attributes (/ union of sets of attributes).

Nope.That's a necessary condition, but certainly not a sufficient condition.

  • Jan Hidders
Received on Mon May 06 2013 - 17:18:38 CEST

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