Re: Proposal: 6NF

"Cimode" <cimode_at_hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1160164534.301408.114420_at_c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> David Cressey wrote:
> > "Bob Badour" <bbadour_at_pei.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:EEtVg.1274$cz.18103_at_ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> >
> >
> > >... A dbms is a formal logic system ...
> >
> > Bullshit.
> Without knowing it, Barking Dog Prime means that he conceives a dbms as
> a formal logic system that should handle missing data in a
> deterministic manner as opposed to non deterministic method incarnated
> by SQL NULLS. On that, he is right 100% and you are wrong.

I don't know how you figure out what BD1 means if he doesn't know it himself.

His words were bullshit, and I was careful to quote the exact part that was bullshit.

Where I started from was that a DBMS should have a "systematic treatment of missing data". That doesn't necessarily imply that SQL's treatment is a good one, or that, if it is a good one, a better one cannot be devised. I prefer SQL's treatment
to several alternatives I've seen, including the alternative of forbidding all missing data, and the alternative of treating NULL as a special value.

>
> The only flaw in Bob's reasonning that he simply can not imagine that
> such formal system has a one purpose: bridge the gap between subjective
> and collective interpretation of data and formal structual
> representation of data. In the precise case of missing data, he can
> not conceive that a perfectly relational system should both satisfy
> conditions of formalism and subjectivity to be succesfull. As a
> consequence, he can not accept a second that even if they are
> fundamentally wrong on a logical level (with all consequences we know
> of), NULLS are supremely succesfull into representing subjectivity into
> a system....
>

I'm not sure what you mean by the difference between "subjective" and "objective". But NULLS tend to be used for two different purposes in the practical world. "Not Applicable" and "Not Available".

Not Applicable is a commentary on the variable itself, in the context where the NULL is found. Example: Spouse's first name in a context where it's known that there is no spouse.

Not available is a comment on the state of knowledge of the database. This might be what you mean by subjective. I'm not sure.

> So do me a favor, do not engage him, he is lost cause for inquisitive
> and questionning purposes...
>

Given that he has just plonked me, the result you wish may be in the cards anyway. Received on Sat Oct 07 2006 - 14:20:30 CEST