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Re: OT fallacies

From: mAsterdam <mAsterdam_at_vrijdag.org>
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 13:41:33 +0200
Message-ID: <4481751b$0$31656$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>


Keith H Duggar wrote:
> mAsterdam wrote:
>

>>Keith H Duggar wrote:
>>
>>>How do you know the purpose of those insults? I for one
>>>believe they served a /very/ different purpose having
>>>little to do with the argumentation here.
>>
>>What's your take on the purpose?

>
> some possibilities are:
>
> 1) warnings to future readers. If a VI is outed frequently
> it increases the likelihood future readers will avoid
> their snake-oil.
>
> 2) shame as deterrent. If a VI is insulted enough times by
> enough people they /may/ pause to examine themselves.
>
> 3) venting frustration. Let's not forget the benefit of
> venting some of the extreme frustration VI cause in
> those intelligent enough to realize the damage VI do.

In 1) "snake-oil" is a derogatory reference to hominis argumentation. You would be talking about the fallacy itself instead of merely something like it. Fine by me.

In 3) you talk about damage caused - the venting of frustration wil not repair any.

2) Shame as deterrent - well, further down on you snipped this remark:

>> Education.
>> Babies are our most valuable vociferous ignorants.

Ok. Once in a while shame as deterrent may be effective. Let's not overdo that, though.
After all it's is so /distracting/.

For a nice distraction:

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Ad_hominem

[snip]

> ... I'm just pointing out the error in assuming we
> /know/ the purpose of the authors.

The site you quoted about the ad hominem fallacy has a different take on that:

"The phrase denoted an argument /designed/ to appeal to the listener's emotions rather than to reason, ..." (my emphasis)

[snip]

>>The Latin "ad hominem" just means "to(wards) the man". 
>>I am ignorant of current developments in insultology.

>
>
> Ah, I see it just means "to the man" eh?

Yes, and I agree with you that it is mostly used as or refers to "argumentum ad hominem".

> Which man?

You once wrote that you respected ignorance. Are you sincere about that? Don't fake it.

> I guess you just didn't believe me or you
> wanted to have a pissing contest?
> Is that why you decided to contradict the point I
> and Marshall tried to make?

No. In fact I did not contradict the point that "The insult was not his argument."
Quoting myself from my reply to Marshall Spight's post: "All three utterances are not by themselves examples of the "ad-hominem" logical fallacy."

I took opposition to the suggestion that this would be in defense for the insults.
Are you defending them?

Again, from the same post:

"True, but that does not make it right.

The insults /do/ constitute personal attacks."

[snip verbous reiteration of a point already agreed on]

> ... Will you now agree that "ad hominem =
> insulting opponent" is a confused understanding of the
> phrase and concept?

Yes.

Are you defending the insults? Received on Sat Jun 03 2006 - 06:41:33 CDT

Original text of this message

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