OT Bull-fight avoidance (was: Why all the max length constraints?)

dawn wrote:
> Note: there is no answer to the OP question nor even advancing of it
> below, just banter out of frustration, for what it's worth.
>
>David Cressey wrote:
>>mAsterdam wrote:

>>>As soon as you say "can't" in relation to a pet tool or model
>>>you are waving a red cloth in front of a bull.
>
> Yes, and I should have said "couldn't" instead of "can't". I will try
> to be more cautious.

Do you really think the bull notices the difference? I don't.

>>>Not unlike Neo's unfounded "prolog can't do this" or
>>>"RM can't do that" statements repeated ad nauseam.
>>>
>>>This gives room to responses like:

[Keith H Duggar:]
>>>>>This is a classic example of argument from
>>>>>ignorance or the burden of proof logical fallacy.
>>>>
[dawn:]
>>>>You seem to think I'm arguing something when I think I am asking
>>>>something.
>>>
>>>You shouldn't have waved the red towel :-)
>
> If it had been a verbal face-to-face discussion, my choice of terms
> would not have been a problem.

Yes, and there would be other social mechanisms in place. This forum isn't face-to-face though.

> I write with a speaking style but will
> try to be more aware of where someone might jump to such an incorrect
> conclusion if they are thinking the worst of me.

[snip]

>>>Here you are suggesting again they aren't part of
>>>the database design but part of the dbms.
>>>They are not - another red towel. You could easily make
>>>your statement in a way which shows you understand
>>>that difference.

[snip]

>>>>I could read numerous papers and learn enough so that I could produce
>>>>an implementation of the RM myself, at which point I would know why I
>>>>wanted those attribute length constraints.
>>>
>>>The db designer determines attribute length constraints, not the dbms.
>>>Why do you ignore this difference?
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>
>>Dawn has previously admitted to "pushing people's buttons". What she hasn't
>>admitted to is making statements she knows to be false just to push people's
>>buttons.
>
>
> Yes, I try to put smilies or other clues in so people know if I'm aware
> of joking or pushing buttons on purpose. One friend told me years ago
> that I had a U of M(ichigan) sense of humor (and I was around U of M
> until the age of 6 so maybe that's true).
>
> However, I do not knowingly state things that I don't agree with. I'm
> not playing devil's advocate. I have a perspective which I know comes
> more from the "programmer" than "dba" perspective. While I doubt I
> state many opinions where I'm the only IT professional holding such an
> opinion, I might sometimes be the only one stating it on cdt.

I'ld welcome those professionals - I would like to see some other perspectives. Anybody seriously considering to contribute from outside the RM will start reading some recent posts and suspect that they will not be treated politely, though. Not very attractive.

> I know
> I'm not all-knowing nor 100% accurate, and I learn a lot and have
> refined my own thinking considerably from hearing the perspective of
> you and others. I have not changed every opinion I have, however,
> perhaps because they are not all wrong ;-)
>
>
>>However, she claims to be a well seasoned programmer on all kinds of
>>systems ranging from IMS to Oracle,
>
>
> Seasoned (I prefer that term to "mature"), yes, but I try not to make
> claims, just provide anecdotes where I think relevant. I have seen
> successes and failures and have had enough experiences to form some
> opinions, again, some of which might be incorrect and skewed by my
> experiences, so I like knowing what others think too. This would be
> the case for anyone, I would think.
>
>
>>a technical leader, a manager, and a
>>college professor.
>
>
> You missed "mom" and a few other important roles I'll skip. While I
> will claim to have done plenty of coding with IMS (quite some years
> ago), I have done only a little programming with Oracle, MySQL, and
> PostgreSQL, and none of that very recently, having more experience in
> mgmt with SQL-DBMS's as well as Pick. I don't have a Ph.D. and have
> only taught during 5 years of my career to date, while spending more
> than 25 as a practitioner in one role or another. These are simply
> facts. It bothers me when you or anyone says I'm claiming something
> since it is very unlike me to try to flex any muscle or even want to do
> such. The primary thing I've claimed is ignorance, which means that my
> detractors and I agree on at least that.
>
>
>> Yet she claims to be ignorant of things that any of the
>>rest of us would expect EVERY such person to know.
>
>
> If people want to tell me how ignorant I am, I don't mind agreeing. I
> have anecdotal, but not scientific, evidence that men are less inclined
> to admit ignorance or even to show it with their questions.

Ah RM is Real Men!

Kidding aside, it depends on the company.

It takes more stamina to show ignorance in this newsgroup now, than it did say a year ago.
I have recently refrained from asking questions revealing ignorance because of anticipated reactions here - even when it would just be about exact wording.

My favourite writer in dutch literature had "nescio" as pseudonym. Received on Mon May 29 2006 - 01:10:09 CEST