Re: 3vl 2vl and NULL

From: Frank Hamersley <terabitemightbe_at_bigpond.com>
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 23:35:51 GMT
Message-ID: <rTDuf.167703$V7.111602_at_news-server.bigpond.net.au>


dawn wrote:
> Frank Hamersley wrote:

>>dawn wrote:
>>>Frank Hamersley wrote:
>>>>dawn wrote:
>>>>[..]
>>>>>>If there's something wrong with SQL, can you identify what's wrong?
>>>>>
>>>>>I believe that over the past couple of years I have identified several
>>>>>things that make it a less productive tool than what I might want.
>>>>>I'll give just one example:  You cannot back an arbitrary "screen" (UI,
>>>>>e.g. web page) with a SQL VIEW even though views need not be
>>>>>normalized.
>>>>
>>>>G'day Dawn, I am intrigued as to what an arbitrary screen is and what
>>>>the hitch is in using a view to populate it? Can you please elaborate?
>>>
>>>Thanks for biting, Frank (and I'm always charmed by the "G'day Dawn"
>>>greeting from folks down under so I'm guessing that is where you are).
>>
>>Spot on Dawn.  Shall we say it is a nibble to date ;-)
>>
>>>After David decided to bypass my response to his challenge, I decided I
>>>would write this one up in one of my first entries in the blog I'm
>>>starting in the new year.  I'll give a quick response here, but I'm
>>>hoping it is not too irritating to point you to the blog entry after I
>>>post it.
>>
>>Nope - I will happily take a look though I think I can guess the POV
>>that will be propounded there.

>
> Yes, I'm sure. I figure I have done enough research and chatted in
> this forum enough to at least start writing up both facts and opinions
> (trying to ensure the reader knows which is which) in an effort to help
> move the industry in a direction that I think is forward. I recognize
> there are still many relational theory proponents who will disagree. I
> might bore cdt readers, but will try not to.
>
>>>The question is not whether one can use a (SQL) view to populate a
>>>screen, but how one would prepare a (not-necessarily SQL) view to
>>>precisely model a screen.  What is the data model behind a screen that
>>>has a set of radio buttons, a drop-down checklist, a multi-selection
>>>drop-down, and a name and address, for example?  So I'm not suggesting
>>>that the data could not come from a SQL view, but that it cannot be
>>>modeled by one.
>>
>>"by one" - did you mean a single view to describe the entire screen
>>layout prior to rendering the data that "backs" it?  For instance
>>something like ...
>>
>>    SELECT * FROM screens WHERE screen = "a_screen_name"

>
> Yes, if I understand your question.

Is there a doubt? I have segmented the "back" phrase into one of two possibilities (a) the data to be rendered on the "screen", or (b) the screen metadata? that describes the exact layout of elements on the "screen". I thought you were addressing (b). Am I correct so far?

> It is not just the values that I
> want to be able to get, but the form, the data model, behind a screen
> view of the data. It is easy enough to put an XML document behind a
> screen, for example, retaining the shape of the data.

Easy for you - not necessarily "easy" in terms of the number of instructions executed.

>>>Did that make sense?  Thanks.  --dawn
>>
>>The answer to that is moot at this point.
>

> Aw, come on, it would be helpful to know whether I'm only making sense
> to myself or actually engaging in a dialog that is making sense to you
> to, even if you disagree. Cheers! --dawn

Thats cool - I suspect I might disagree based on the direction to date but before deciding I wanted to qualify the problem to avoid (well reduce the risk at least) of later embarrassment.

Cheers, Frank. Received on Wed Jan 04 2006 - 00:35:51 CET

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