Re: the relational model of data objects *and* program objects

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:45:47 GMT, "mountain man" <hobbit_at_southern_seaweed.com.op> wrote:

>> The inexistence of relationships between the RM and the applications
>> does not mean that the RM is useless for developing applications. It
>> only means that it is not being used.
>
>
>I think that you would agree that it obviously should be used,
>because of the downstream benefits, but it is not. Does this not
>tell you something?

Yes, that we live in a very imperfect world.

>It tells me that the model - as it is currently
>promulgated - is not viewed as being applicable to the task by
>the people involved in conducting the task.

The problem is that the people who know about application programming don't know about databases and vice-versa. Date and Pascal don't want to know anything about application programming, for instance.

>> We don't need a new model to coordinate the applications with the
>> DBMS, it is rather easy to do that with the existent computational
>> models.
>
>
>Do you have any references in regard to these
>computational models?

Make a google search for:

"Relational Model"
"Object Oriented Programming"
"Structured Programming"
"Functional Programming"

Etc.

>> What I mean is that we can integrate both things when we want. There
>> is not any theoretical problem.
>
>
>When you say "we" you are speaking in the capacity
>of a specific role-type associated with a database system

I mean "we" humans :)

>(See my recent post with a list of role-types). I would
>like to ask you which of these roletypes best summarises
>your perspective.

Suppliers of development tools. RDBMS included.

IMO an RDBMS should be a part of an integrated and coordinated Information System development tool set.

>From your perspective of this role-type (yet to be defined
>by yourself) you perceive no problem,

I perceive a terrible problem: good development tools don't exist, and they are hard and expensive to develop.

> however I would
>not hesitate to point out that the integration of database
>and application software is a major problem for many
>organisations (hence use of external consultants).

It is, but not due to the lack of a theoretical model. It is due to the lack of decent tools and the scarcity of good professionals.

>> But to integrate database objects with programming objects is all we
>> need to integrate database objects with programming objects :)
>
>Again, I suspect the "we" perspective here to be related to
>a specific solution or product related to the RDBMS rather
>than to the development and extention of database theory.

The problem is not in database theory, it is outside.

Regards Received on Thu Apr 14 2005 - 14:15:19 CEST