Re: Wishing trolls away

"Dawn M. Wolthuis" <dwolt_at_tincat-group.com> wrote in message news:<c7vune$nm8$1_at_news.netins.net>...
> "Lauri Pietarinen" <lauri.pietarinen_at_atbusiness.com> wrote in message
> news:e9d83568.0405122002.1d4676a_at_posting.google.com...
> > "Dawn M. Wolthuis" <dwolt_at_tincat-group.com> wrote in message
> news:<c7rio3$vd0$1_at_news.netins.net>...
> > > "Leandro Guimarães Faria Corsetti Dutra" <leandro_at_dutra.fastmail.fm>
> wrote
> > > in message news:pan.2004.05.11.21.37.13.680915_at_dutra.fastmail.fm...
> > > > I am sorely disappointed, the group has reverted to a trolling
> > > > field by sellers of sad OO, MV, XML, whatever snake oil who have no
> > > > interest in learning anything sane.
> > > >
> > > > I guess there comes a point where only *moderated* mailing
> > > > lists can bear intelligent conversation.
> > >
> > > Sorry to disappoint, if I am among your targets for this posting. I am
> > > truely, honestly, searching for why my book-knowledge and experience are
> so
> > > out of alignment in the area of databases, so I am guilty of bringing
> > > experience into the mix.
> >
> > I think the key question here is how well the DB and programming
> > environment are integrated, and in most cases the integration of
> > SQL-products and typically used programming languages is not very
> > good. It means that you have to somehow bridge the gap between two
> > environments and maybe even have separate persons working on the
> > different tiers, with more need for communication, training etc.
>
> Yes, I think you are right that the integrated environment is one aspect of
> the reason, but I have used Java with an MV database and it provides most of
> the same advantages that way.

So what do you think the "magic formula" of Pick is when comparing to SQL? Is it one spesific feature, or is it a set of features? To put it another way, what should be added to SQL to give it the same advantages?

> > Apart from the problems with integration, would it even possible to
> > build large enterprise scale applications without using an SQL-DMBS?
> > Would it be possible to, say, write the applications that run Amazon,
> > eBay or FedEx using PICK?
>
> Absolutely! You might even be amazed at the names on the list of PICK
> customers, with tens of thousands of end-users for single applications, huge
> volumes of data, etc. When I asked pickies where they hit limits, they
> provided limits they hit while building up large apps along with the methods
> for how they solved any such issues. For example, you would not want
> terabytes of data within a single logical PICK file even on the fastest
> hardware.
>
> > And on the reporting side, I think products such as Business Objects
> > and Cognos Impromptu provide excellent (integrated) capabilities and
> > that is where the RM (and even SQL!) really shine.
>
> That is what I used to think (and speak on). Then I had and saw teams of
> software developers working to make companies productive with SQL-based
> tools on SQL-DBMS's and the MV query language on MV databases. There really
> is no comparison from an "end-user" standpoint.

Can you give an example? Again, what were the features in the Pick environment that differentiated it from the SQL environment? What should be added to SQL so that it would be on par with Pick?

regards,
Lauri Pietarinen Received on Thu May 13 2004 - 20:54:34 CEST