Re: Dreaming About Redesigning SQL
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:24:06 +0100
Message-ID: <UGXSKIAGbtk$EwW3_at_thewolery.demon.co.uk>
In article <bmpoap$oc47b$1_at_ID-125932.news.uni-berlin.de>, Christopher
Browne <cbbrowne_at_acm.org> writes
>>> How do you know it works? Without the theory and model, you
>>>really do not.
>>>
>> And don't other databases have both theory and model?
>>
>> It's just that all the academics have been brainwashed into thinking
>> this is true only for relational, so that's what they teach to
>> everyone else, and the end result is that all research is ploughed
>> into a model that may be (I didn't say "is") bankrupt. Just like the
>> academics were brainwashed into thinking that microkernels were the
>> be-all and end-all - until Linus showed them by practical example
>> that they were all idiots :-)
>
>In mathematics as well as in the analysis of computer algorithms, it
>is typical for someone who is trying to explain something new to try
>to do so in terms that allow the gentle reader to do as direct a
>comparison as possible between the things with which they are familiar
>(e.g. - in this case, relational database theory) and the things with
>which they are perhaps NOT familiar (e.g. - in this case, MV
>databases).
>
>Nobody seems to have been prepared to explain the MV model in adequate
>theoretical terms as to allow the gentle readers to compare the theory
>behind it with the other theories out there.
>
>I'm afraid that does not reflect very well on either those lauding MV
>or those trashing it.
I think one MAJOR problem is that most (if not all) MV practitioners are not formally qualified in computing ... for example by education I'm a chemist. And I'm doing postgrad in medical science ...
The trouble is - we MV'ers tend to take an engineering approach - we use it because we know it works. To quote you from another post ...
>When people _don't_ do that "thinking differently," we are certain to
>see hideous performance, and that is neither a SQL issue nor a
>"relational" issue. The point is that if they are accessing a big
>pile of data, they have to think carefully [jumping to that "different
>way of thinking"] irrespective of what specific language(s),
>libraries, or other tools they are using.
"Relational" is all about theory and proving things mathematically correct. "MV" is all about engineering and getting the result. And if that means pinching all the best ideas we can find from relational, then we're engineers - of course we'll do it :-)
"Think different". Think Engineering, not Maths. And for $DEITY's sake stop going on about science. Unless you can use set theory to predict the future, relational has nothing to do with science ...
Cheers,
Wol
-- Anthony W. Youngman - wol at thewolery dot demon dot co dot uk Witches are curious by definition and inquisitive by nature. She moved in. "Let me through. I'm a nosey person.", she said, employing both elbows. Maskerade : (c) 1995 Terry PratchettReceived on Sun Oct 19 2003 - 20:24:06 CEST