Re: Database Builders, Code Generators, On-Topic?

"Kenneth Downs" <ken_remove_underscores_downs_at_downsfam.net> wrote in message news:75atab.7gn.ln_at_mercury.downsfam.net...
> Quoting unnamed sources, Bob Badour claimed:
>
> > "Kenneth Downs" <ken_remove_underscores_downs_at_downsfam.net> wrote in
> > message news:0gvrab.dhl.ln_at_mercury.downsfam.net...
> >> Quoting unnamed sources, Bob Badour claimed:
> >>
> >> > "Kenneth Downs" <MyUseNetHandle_at_linuxmail.org> wrote in message
> >> > news:e3arab.kkk.ln_at_mercury.downsfam.net...
> >> >> Hi folks. I've been lurking here for a few weeks now and have made
a
> >> >> post or two, but up until now have not started a thread.
> >> >>
> >> >> There is a topic close to my heart which I do not see discussed here
> >> >> much,
> >> >> and I wonder if it is considered topical. Briefly, I spend my days
> >> >> designing and implementing data-driven systems, wherein we use a
> >> > collection
> >> >> of tables that describe tables, columns, keys, references and so
> >> >> forth.
> >> >
> >> > This sounds suspiciously like a system catalog.
> >>
> >> This may be only semantics, but we reserve the term "system catalog"
for
> > the
> >> database server's tables or views of the schema.
> >
> > It's not even semantics. A proper system catalog would necessarily
include
> > at least everything mentioned in your earlier post. The system catalog
> > should completely describe all domains and relation variables including
> > all constraints ie. all predicates.
> >
> >
> >> Our own tables are
> >> outside of the system catalog.
> >
> > I suggest this indicates a deficiency in your system catalog.
>
> Bob, I cannot follow your reasoning because you did not speak to my
> distinction between the vendor's system catalog (ie, MS SQL Server, DB/2,
> etc.) and our own application's catalog.

I see no distinction between them. Your original system catalog, ie. the system catalog provided by the vendor, is deficient, and you perceive some need to invent a better one.

> There is no "my catalog" because I am not authoring a DB server, I am
using > a DB server. Again, we reserve (rightly or wrongly) the term "system
> catalog" for what the vendor provides to us.

If you are not authoring a dbms, what are you doing? Alphora provides an enhanced system catalog that fronts SQL vendors' catalogs, and they provide an improved dbms, dataphor, as a result.

It seems to me you are trying to do the same only in half-measures.

> <snip>
>
> As for the rest of it, you address each example and point by asserting
that
> you see no value in any of it, so I will have to accept that you don't.

You are putting words in my mouth. (If you have to snip what I said so that you can tell me what I said, that's usually a sign.) I said you did not establish any causal relationship between your arbitrary restriction and the benefits you claim. I provided justification for why the arbitrary restriction provides none of the benefits you ascribe to it. You simply waved your hands and made unsupported assertions.

If you choose to acknowledge and to respond to what I actually wrote, we might have an interesting discussion. If you insist on responding to what you wish I had said, we won't. Received on Mon May 26 2003 - 21:57:33 CEST