Re: Do Data Models Need to built on a Mathematical Concept?

"Paul Vernon" <paul.vernon_at_ukk.ibmm.comm> wrote in message news:<b8eg1v$1pbo$1_at_gazette.almaden.ibm.com>...
>
> but wait, he then says next
>
> "Is it time to consider a more democratic structuring principle, similar
> to what they have in relational databases?"
>
> Unbeliveable! Why have computer scientists taken 30 years to to consider this?
> Where have they been? His next words just confim this.

YES! This is the very question I have been trying to find an answer to for the last years! Any suggestions?

[snip]

Thanks Paul, for summarising the issue so nicely. I am, though a bit sceptical on the XML-stuff...

>
> To bridge this gap, I am thinking that there needs to be bridging of
> functional programming with relational programming. Such a bridging is not
> just a matter of a relational interface to FPs that allows persistent data
> storage, no, it is the full integration of the two worlds.The Relational model
> needs improving with the type theory and program/theory proving of FPs and FPs
> need to have relations and the relational algebra as first class primitives,
> and they need to accept the principle that all permantly stored, generally
> accessible data needs to be represented as relations.

I tend to agree with Marshall here that there is still room for an imperative component, both inside the implementations of the datatypes and their operators and outside and around the relations. This is what I understand is proposed in TTM (www.thethirdmanifesto.com) and implemented in Dataphor by Alphora.

Of course the more we can keep in the relational realm the better, but I believe there will always be parts of the application that will have to be tackled imperatively.

>
> Reflecting Jayadev's closing remarks, we need the relational model and
> relational programming to become part of the mainstream of computer science. I
> don't believe we are there yet.

I think it requires that computer scientists realise that what's good for mathematics (i.e. relations) is good for computer science also and that in the end of the day we have to base everything on mathematics anyway.

regards,
Lauri Pietarinen Received on Sun Apr 27 2003 - 21:38:11 CEST