Re: Object support in the relational model??

"Carl Rosenberger" <carl_at_db4o.com> wrote in message news:<ae4gki$585$01$1_at_news.t-online.com>...
>
> Indeed, that's what I am doing and I am proud to be able to
> produce practical results without loosing time, worrying about
> the theoretical flaws in the basic building block that I use:
> the programming language.

	So why are you posting at comp.databases.theory?
                                                 ^^^^^^

> My approach is:
> "We have Java and we are using it. How can I persist Java objects
> in the simplest and most efficient way possible?"
> ...no more.

        That's why you end up in the common gutter that SQL has thrown us at.

        BTW, what do you do with the end-user? By thinking about programming only you limit yourself to one application per database, no interactive use, etc.

> No worries about theories, no worries about separating methods
> from data, no worries about what others are doing or what other
> "highly educated" people are saying.
> ...people that produce tons of paper that are never used for
> anything productive in practice.

        So you deny that the relational model, produced by one such people -- EF 'Ted' Codd -- has any relevance? Where have you been hiding in the last twenty years, when SQL, even if a extremely flawed implementation of the relational model and ultimately a failure, has proved its worth over every other approach to DBMS?

> Implementation always is a representation of a logical model
> and for a practicioner it is the most relevant one, and it

        I'm a practicioner and I think the logical model is more relevant.

        BTW, how can you create a logical model without a data model? If you are restricted to ERD, which poor models you are bound to create.

> is the easiest to understand since it implicitely describes
> itself completely.

        Only for DBMS programmers. What about DBAs, application programmers and end users? All of these want the logical model, not the physical one.

        You see, each OODB must be built from scratch on top of a DBMS-construction kit, with minute attention paid to physical details.  Compare that with the logical model that can be implemented in a RDBMS, and the physical details changed behind the scenes without compromising the coherence of the user schema.

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