Re: Flamewar object databases vs. relational databases

Bob Badour wrote:
> >> >What is your personal favorite method to generate foreign keys in a
> >> >multi-user environment?
>
> I don't really have a favourite way. I'm usually stuck using SQL in spite
 of
> how much it sucks as a relational language.

How would an ideal relational language handle this?

You must have some code somewhere that does this?

You are making life very easy for yourself by changing standpoints whenever it seems suitable. You rant against the present object database implementations with technical arguments and market arguments. When it comes to relational, you switch to an "ideally would be" standpoint.

For taking decisions as a software project manager there is only one suitable standpoint:
pragmatist:

- "How would we do this?"
- "How can we save development time?"
- "What is the cost?"
- "Will this product be supported for the next five years?"

Again:
How would you insert

- two rows into a relational database
- where the foreign key in one row is equal to the primary key in the other
- on an ORACLE database
- under Java
- where performance is of less importance than integrity
- and multiple-users access the database

Man or wimp?
Programmer or bubble-blower?
Can you solve this problem or not?

> >Who is interested in the theory if our product is fast now?
>
> And if Oracle is faster, and actually enforces the integrity constraints?

On the same machine an Oracle insert for a simple integer is by more than factor 30 slower than our engine. This is a fact. I have test code and figures to prove this. If you have other figures, please publish them here with source code to prove your "If" argumentation.

> I did not say there is no product to prove it. I said you cannot prove
 your
> point unless you compare against every possible solution. Choosing one
> design on one product to compare against proves nothing.

Yes, it does prove something:
The other product is very much slower if you use a design that is typical for relational development.

There never is absolute truth.

> >[JDBC]
> >> >What database interface do you preferrably use, if you program with
 Java?
> >>
> >> I am a programmer. I'll use whatever interface is practical and
 available.
> >
> >Great!
> >What would be your decision today, if you would need to take one?
>
> I already answered that. Whatever is practical and available. Unless I
 have
> specific requirements, I cannot say what I would choose.

It is very easy to wind yourself out of discussions with "BullShit", "Strawman" and "it depends". Just name one feasible alternative to be used for access to relational databases from Java. There is no choice.

Kind regards,
Carl

---
Carl Rosenberger
db4o - database for objects - http://www.db4o.com