Re: Recursive (Unary) Relatinoships

In article <eEYP5.15013$q4.253093_at_petpeeve.ziplink.net>, David Cressey <david_at_dcressey.com> writes
>I agree with not interspersing reply and original, but I don't agree with
>your pattern.
>
>I think you should type your entire message first, then follow it with the
>material you are quoting.
>
>This makes it very easy to detect the new message: it's right up front. It
>also happens to be the way
>MS Outlook, and Outlook Express do it.

I've seen threads on this topic eat newsgroups, so please note that I'll make my points and duck out. Followups are set to Poster.

Putting the reply at the beginning of the message is a mistake. The reader needs to see the quoted text first, in order to establish the context. Putting the reply first is easiest for the writer, but there are many more readers than writers. The writer already knows the context, having just read the original message. The reader may never have read the original, usenet being asynchronous, or may have read it so long ago that they have forgotten it.

Outlook and Outlook express were designed using Microsoft's usability testing, which would confirm that top-quoting is easier for the person they believed to be the user. There appears to be a fundamental design fault in their software design system, which is why Outlook and OE have this particular fault. Microsoft very thoroughly optimised the application for the wrong task.

Another fault that stems from the same source is that Outlook and OE don't encourage trimming of the replied text. That's why you sometimes see an e-mail or newsgroup reply with the whole of the previous message dangling at the end, and if there are earlier messages all of those get included too (complete with .sig messages). Trimming so that the context is maintained can be hard work, so not doing it makes life easier for the writer.

There is of course another reason for using interspersed quotes, which is that many long-time net users expect it. I have some sympathy for that viewpoint, but I don't believe that it's a strong enough reason on its own.

A related reason is that a few of those old codgers will automatically killfile any news posting made with Outlook or OE. Their view is apparently that anyone who isn't smart enough to choose a real newsreader isn't worth helping. When you post to a support newsgroup it's sometimes those people who can offer you the most help.

-- 
Bernard Peek
Not necessarily speaking for: POSTer Audience Research -- POSTAR Ltd.
27 Sale Place, London, W2 1YR. (020 7479-9700)
Bernard_at_postar.co.uk