Re: Informix vs. Sybase vs. Oracle vs. (gasp) MS SQL Server

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Segel <Mikey_at_NOSPAM.King.of.MyDomain.NOSPAM.Segel.com> writes:

Michael> 
Michael> Conceputaly the finer the granularity of locks
Michael> acheived, the better the application will behave
Michael> and the easier it is to implement an OLTP
Michael> application.

and you ignore the fact that there's added overhead with row level locking. When you consider the *whole* picture, you soon see that it doesn't make a difference.

Michael> Now, as to TPC benchmarks, why don't you print the configurations used. :-)

They're lengthy... but I've told people where to look for them (and I'll do it again: www.tpc.org). But if you inisist on the other number, for the Sybase number that beats Informix, we have $94.18/tpmC vs $139.04/tpmC for Informix. It's cheaper to use Sybase and you get 60+% better performance.

Michael> (Yes Virginia, I have done benchmarking and I know Michael> that everyone cheats:-)

There are FDR's for the TPC-C's. Tell me on these two benches where people "cheated".

I grant you that TPC-C's aren't true real world but it's the best that we have for a normalized application. Not something silly like "well my hotel reservation system ran great using product X and sucked on product Y" All that proves is that someone may not have known how to write an application. Big deal.

Michael> He's saying that there are other things that Sybase
Michael> does well, inspite of not havingrow level
Michael> locking. Would you care to elaborate. It was the
Michael> same point I was trying to make. Only you thought
Michael> to say SNIP! :-)

The issue has never been whether Sybase does row level or page level locking. I'm just talking about the issue itself on row level vs page level locking. You and he keep wanting to try and drag Sybase into this whole thread. I could care less about Sybase at this point. I only bring in Sybase because it's the only RDBMS at this point in time doing page level locking. And it's proven with the -C's that it's not an issue. But you seem to conveniently ignore the fact that Sybase currently beats the pants off of Informix.

Assuming that there was some cheating, are you saying that there was sufficient cheating to warrant a 60+% performance increase? I don't think so.

Michael> No, this whole thread is a stray. That's the point I was trying to make since Michael> itssilly to say that page level locking is better than row level locking.

No it's not silly and you have yet to refute why it is so. You have "said" that it is so, but you don't have any *facts* to support your assertion. You can keep saying it but until you can provide some facts to support your assertion it's hard to give any credibility to your statement.

I have provided you with TPC-C's that prove that it's not an issue. That's my point that it's not an issue. You have done nothing to show contrary. As you say, show me.

Michael> Uhmm, well no. Scale your application up. Increase Michael> the number of users.

Okay, the TPC-C has for Sybase has 32,000+ users. How many do you want? Of course they're mux'd using Tuxedo but nonetheless the engine is supporting 32,000 users.

Michael> Then lets talk about performance.

Okay, 39,469tpmC's. Is that good enough for you? 60+% greater than Informix's current number. Yup, let's talk about performance now.

Michael> Please understand that IMHO, the best place to tune a
Michael> system is at the app level, not the db engine. Of course, a well tuned engine is
Michael> important.

I disagree. The best place to tune a system is in its entirety. You have to consider:

	o The application
	o The RDBMS
	o The hardware

What good is it to tune your application when you are CPU bound, when you are disk bound, when you haven't set PDQPRIORITY... you have to look at *everything* not just a single component. It's a waste of time otherwise.

Michael> Well, how many retail customers use Sybase?

FEDEX, United Airlines, ....

Michael> Reservation Systems?(SABRE is still Michael> mainframe AFAIK)

I don't believe it's so. I think that they are using Oracle. United Airline's ticketing uses a mainframe and they are looking at getting off of it. NDA prevents me from further discussion on this topic.

-- 
Pablo Sanchez              | Ph # (650) 933.3812          Fax # (650) 933.2821
pablo_at_sgi.com              | Pg # (800) 930.5635   -or-   pablo_p_at_pager.sgi.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am accountable for my actions.   http://reality.sgi.com/pablo [ /Sybase_FAQ ]