Re: RDBMS-based Intranet groupware products vs Notes : RDBMS vs proprietary doc. storage

Note -- I work for Oracle.

> Tiassa_at_ix.netcom.com (Danny Lawrence) writes:
> Jean-Philippe JAVEL <jpjavel_at_worldnet.fr> wrote:
>
> >I am currently evaluating Intranet groupware products, competitors to Lotus Notes, for a
> >2000 user project.
 

> >Such products, for example recently launched Oracle Interoffice or OpenText Livelink
> >Intranet, are usually based on a RDBMS such as Oracle7. Document files (Word etc.) are
> >stored in BLOB long rows of the relational DBMS. Such an architecture seems to require a
> >powerful (and expensive) server : for example, at least a bi-processor Sun Ultra 2, 256
> >Mo RAM for about 200 concurrent users.
> >OpenText France recommands to have the HTTPd running on one server and the RDBMS on
> >another more powerful one.
> >Implementing replication like for Notes would reduce a major benefit of Intranet
> >architectures : the capacity for a single server to serve (well) several sites.
 

> >so, RDBMS vs proprietary (such as Notes) document storage ?
 

> >Has anyone experience of RDBMS Intranet products (InterOffice, Livelink etc.) handling
> >hundreds of concurrent users efficiently on a single server ? Are RDBMS such as Oracle 7
> >Universal Server mature enough for managing thousands of Word, Excel etc. files ?
> >What hardware is required for the HTTPd and RDBMS compared to Lotus Notes 4 ?
>
> I don't have any solid answers, my guess is that it depends on what
> the specific situation is. I will make a couple of points:

I agree so far!

> First I'd like to mention that RDBMS's are "proprietary" formats as
> well. you access them via a "common" command set, namely SQL (as you
> can Notes), but the On-Disk structures of an Oracle DB are different
> from those of say a Sybase DB (as both are different from the Notes DB
> structure).

Come on! There are ANSI and ISO standards for SQL, but not the Notes APIs. In addition, Oracle InterOffice supports standards for document management -- ODMA for example. InterOffice also supports the relevant messaging, directory, and calendar/schedule standards. It offers full functionality through every standard Web browser as well, so you don't need any client software (or client software fee, unlike Notes!). The server requirements for InterOffice are no more demanding than for other products, but it uses the server more efficiently -- we've got over 1,000 engineers working on the server efficiency! Does Notes have a fault-tolerant failover, on-line "near zero impact" backup and recovery with guaranteed consistency, support for clusters/SMP/MPP environments, etc., like the Oracle Universal Server? No. And with no client software required (plus you can use other clients like MS Word for document management or the Exchange client for both document management and e-mail.

> Then there is the issue of whether an RDBMS is the right product for
> what you describe above. I think not, Notes excells at manitaining a
> dattabase of documents, and that is what you seem to be describing,
> trying to fit "thousands of Word, Excel etc. files" into an RDBMS
> might work, but the amount of work it would take to get them into the
> DB might be more trouble that it is worth.

When Notes was developed, it was a breakthrough product. For the first time, it offered groups a way to work together easily. At the time, databases could not handle storage of anything but numbers, dates, and short text. Today, things have changed. The Oracle database stores video, audio, full text (indexed, even with thematic indices!), and any other data type -- that's what makes it a Universal Server (universal data type support). Oracle has brought the benefits of the most scalable database (see above list) to groupware. And it goes beyong groupware to full enterprise collaboration by making it VERY easy to access operational and collaborative data in one server -- even in one query, and unlike any other collaboration product, with transactional integrity guaranteed. Want to ensure that if an order gets entered an e-mail or workflow event occurs? Want to keep some data along with your documents? It's impossible or a very big pain with products like Notes.

Back to server requirements for a moment, how much more does it require on the server to have both an operational and groupware server? If you need both, you get heavy hardware burdens, heavy administrative burdens, and very weak integration if you go with a solution other than InterOffice.

> Next is cost, Lotus has done a study on Notes vs. Intranets, I'm
> pretty sure that it is on ther web site. I wouldn't take it as gospel,
> but it is a place to start. As you can guess, their study shows that
> Notes is a cheaper solution, especially when you count the
> administration time/personnel factors, it also points out the
> advantages of using a unified solution like Notes vs. pulling together
> an assortment of products which may or may not work together.

I agree! Don't go with an assortment of taped together components. Unify everything in one server.

Incidentally, Detroit Edison is running over 5,000 users on a two-processor HP/9000, at a total cost for the groupware system (including all software, all server hardware, and all administration/operation costs) of $125/user/year!   

> One last thing, I don't have the figures, but I'm willing to bet large
> amounts of money that "a bi-processor Sun Ultra 2, 256 Mo RAM" would
> be able to handle a LOT more than 200 Notes users.

No, I don't think it could handle 200 *concurrent* Notes users, but it certainly could handle 200 concurrent InterOffice users. And you'd get all that Domino stuff Notes is promising for the future plus much more about 12 months early!

> --Danny Lawrence, Tiassa Technologies
> Lotus Notes Configuration, Development and Managment
> Tiassa _at_ ix.Netcom.Com
> "Tiassa Dreams and plots are born" --Steven Brust
>
>
>

>>>>

• Dennis Moore, Oracle Corp.