Re: Free database tools announcements - invitation to discussion

no_at_spam.com wrote in message news:<cb9fg3030j8_at_drn.newsguy.com>...
> In article <1087886875.88902_at_yasure>, Daniel Morgan says...
> >>
> >>>But once again you have avoided, as do the spammers, directly addressing
> >>>the issue I raise. What is the harm to someone making an announcement
> >>>in c.d.o.marketplace? How is it an imposition to them?
> >>>
> >> Just because freeware is free doesn't mean a freeware author doesn't want
> >> anyone using the product.
> >
> >Agreed. So how does posting to c.d.o.marketplace impose a hardship on
> >the author. Those that want to see announcements will look there.
>
> Prove it. As others have pointed out, most people who want to learn
> about tools come here.

And those like me interested in announcements, look in the .marketplace group. You assumption that .marketplace is a "blackhole" is FALSE.

This group is for DISCUSSION of tools, not announcements.

>
> >Those that don't won't. They call that target marketing.
> >
> >> In fact, the fact that a lot of people will
> >> benefit, and that he can make a difference, is usually the motivation for
> >> the freeware author.
> >
> >Who decides who will benefit from the offering of a product or service?
> >The promoter or the purchaser/consumer? You are weighing in on the side
> >of letting the vendor make that decision. I am weighing in on the side
> >of protecting the usenet group and letting the consumers (us) make the
> >decision.
>
> You are "protecting the usenet group" be banning any mention here of a
> useful free tool that solves problems that people have mentioned here,
> and may be interested in?

No, he is not.>
> >>
> >> As many/most people here have acknowledged, c.d.o.marketplace is a blackhole.
> >
> >Really? So what you are saying is that no one here wants to view
> >promotional postings?
>
> No. What I am saying is that people find it to be an unnatural distinction
> that they have to go somewhere else to find out about these tools. They
> expect to find out about them here.

I don't.
>
> >If that is the case then that should be respected.
> >When I hang up the phone on a telemarketer that does not give them the
> >right to come knock on my door.
> >
> >> Most people interested in tools visit the tools group, not the marketplace
> >> group.
> >
> >No. Most people understand that tools means Oracle tools ... not
> >third-party tools.
>
> Prove it. "oracle.tools" does not necessarily mean "tools made by Oracle"
> it means "tools for using Oracle."
>
> >But lets try it your way. I will start posting
> >things about Informatica, Crystal Reports, Cognos, Brio, PeopleSoft,
> >SAP, Baan, Bea, TOAD, SQL*Navigator, every product in the product line
> >of Computer Associates and BMC. Heck lets throw in TORA, and hundreds of
> >others. After all ... they are all tools that work with Oracle.
> >Shouldn't they get equal rights?
>
> Absolutely. You mean I should go to some other group to ask a question
> about using Toad with Oracle?

well if it doesn't belong in tools, then you are better off in .misc

>
> >
> >Hey Microsoft's MS Access can be used to front-end Oracle Apps. How
> >about promotions for MS Access? And SQL Server can be used to extract
> >data too. How about promotions for SQL Server?
>
> If someone wants to ask a question about using those products with
> Oracle in a capacity as a tool, this is the place to ask.

actually you almost had me, but Daniel's right, .tools is not the place for this topic.
>
> >
> >Is that really what you want? Promotions from everyone that can spell
> >the word Oracle? I hope not!
>
> I don't view an question about a third-party product for Oracle as
> a "promotion".

yes here I actually agree with you. Then whether the question belongs in .tools or .misc is the issue.
>
> >
> > If the marketplace group is the only outlet then there is no point
> >> spending any time writing useful, free tools.
> >
> >And if there is no god then there is no point in being honest and decent
> >so lets all go on a homicidal rampage and smash David Bowie albums.
> >
> >Surely you don't believe what you wrote.
> >
>
> Don't be crazy. I absolutely believe what I wrote. No one in their right
> mind will spend any time writing free tools if he/she is not allowed to
> mention it anywhere except in some marketplace group which no one reads.

Your assuption again is wrong.

And if all you want is to "mention" the free tool, then put a line in your signature. So it is not that we are banning ALL mention of your site/tool/whatever.

>
> > It is a waste of time. The
> >> author may give up on the idea, and the community misses out on a useful,
> >> free tool.
> >
> >Or the author could just post to c.d.o.marketplace and let those
> >interested tell the user community.
>
> I have already debunked that argument.

No you haven't.

Thact fact is, right now, with the job market so slow, product announcements in .marketplace really stand out. Your message has less competition there.
>
> >Or the authors could post a
> >reference to their tool in responding to a legitimate request for
> >help in a different c.d.o usenet group.
>
> I see no need to wait around.

IOW you see no need to contribute to this group other than advertisements?
>
> >Or the author could get
> >their tool written up in Oracle Magazine.
>
> If the tool is big enough in scope.

Does that mean you have already been turned down? Fact is most publishers are continually looking for new material. Now does that mean you can get published the very next issue? No. But 3-6 months from now you could be there.
>
> >Or the author could go
> >to a user group meeting and demo the tool.
>
> On top of spending time creating the free tool he now has to do what?

he has to contribute to the community. You DID say that was the motivation didn't you?
>
> >Or the author could do
> >a zillion other things. Heck I'll post any decent and useful tool
> >at http://www.psoug.org and not one has ever been submitted nor
> >asked to present at a meeting. And the PSOUG web site gets a lot
> >more traffic than all these usenet groups combined.
> >
> >Sorry but I'm not buying the argument. As far as I am concerned
> >they are all just spammers trying to get something for nothing.
> >Every one hoping to charge for their product when, and if, they
> >can.
> >
>
> As long as the community gets something in exchange *now* it is
> not something for "nothing".

So "bait and switch" is an okay marketting tactic in your opinion? Your SPAMMER colors are showing.

  Ed Received on Wed Jun 23 2004 - 16:03:22 CEST