Re: consolidation of multiple rows
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 20:43:26 -0500
Alex Kuznetsov wrote:
> On Mar 8, 8:03 am, DA Morgan <damor..._at_psoug.org> wrote:
>> Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>> DA Morgan wrote: >>>> Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>>>> DA Morgan wrote: >>>>>> Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>>>>>> DA Morgan wrote: >>>>>>>>>> If you know the names Date and Codd you should know who you are >>>>>>>>>> addressing: Joe Celko. >>>>>>>>> Not a name I am familiar with. >>>>>>>> Says much about your attitude toward our profession. >>>>>>>> Enlighten yourself: >>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Celko >>>>>>>> http://www.dbmsmag.com/artin301.html#A000009 >>>>>>>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Wikipedia%22+and+%22Joe+Celko... >>>>>>> Not necessarily. There are a lot of top notch programmers and >>>>>>> DBA's who have never heard of Joe Celko. >>>>>> Well right now I can only name one. <g> >>>>>> Of course you are correct. There are top notch programmers that >>>>>> don't know who Chris Date is. There are top notch programmers >>>>>> that don't know who Dennis Ritchie and Ray Boyce are either no >>>>>> doubt. >>>>>> Though I suspect you could put the names of those "top notch" >>>>>> programmers on a 3x5 card. >>>>> Quite incorrect. Right off the top of my head I can probably name a >>>>> dozen I know personally who haven't heard of him. He's well known in >>>>> some circles, but definitely not all. >>>> The operative phrase here is "top notch." If they ever took even a basic >>>> class on normalization they could not have missed the name Boyce. If >>>> they learned more in C than "Hello World" they'd know who Dennis is. >>> Not necessarily. A lot of great DBA's know normalization but don't know >>> Boyce. >> I would disagree with your characterization of them as "great DBAs." >> >> I know that might be your impression of them. And I've no doubt they >> can install, patch, and backup and restore without crashing and burning. >> But it takes more than that to be "great." >> >> You don't know normalization if you don't know Boyce-Codd Normal Form. >> What you are describing is the competent self-taught ... not the >> "great." >>
> Strange. In our trade most great people are largely self taught in the
> areas they are great in - the industry is new, and people are coming
> up with innovations all the time.
> Linus Torvalds came up with lots of really cool stuff when he wasn't
> even a Master. Sergey Brin and Larry Page do have PhDs, and they came
> up themselves with what makes them great.
Maybe in your experience. I make a very good living teaching Fortune 500 employees in a formal environment.
> Returning to normalization, it is not a very complex theory. When I
> was getting my education, it did not exist yet, but if it did, it
> would be taught in my first year, and it would be an easy course. In a
> top notch university you have to learn a lot of more advanced math to
> get your Master's degree. More to the point, for me as a development
> lead, as well as for many DBAs, normalization is just one of many
> challenges, and a relatively easy one to put it mildly.
Unless you got your degree in the early 70's (like I did), it did exist. But Universities are notorious in not teaching the latest theory, either.
And I do agree, normalization itself is quite easy. But typically, the more normalized the database, the poorer the performance. It takes a great DBA with an understanding of the programming requirements (among other things) to be able to balance the two successfully.
> Memorizing last names has nothing to do with the ability to administer
> databases. Names of inventors are forgotten and or omitted all the
> time. This is especially true for foreign names. Consider periodic
> table of the chemical elements - it is being taught in American
> schools, but the Russian name of its inventor is rarely mentioned.
> Similarly, names of inventors on Normal Forms may be omitted of
> forgotten, especially in other countries, and that is OK just as well.
Agreed. Neither my high school nor my college chemistry classes ever mentioned Mendeleev. It wasn't until I became more interested in history that I learned about him.
-- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle JDS Computer Training Corp. jstucklex_at_attglobal.net ==================Received on Sat Mar 08 2008 - 19:43:26 CST